Author Topic: Small Bores  (Read 11130 times)

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2016, 02:35:21 AM »
a pound of .58 cal balls would be more then sufficient to live comfy for 6 months.
I agree.  However, what about the longhunter, after deer hides?  Bear, and whatever critter he wanted to dispatch.     2lbs. of lead  would be 50 shots with the .58 ...

This is completely a function of how many balls are recovered from game and other shots taken.  I just checked a .530 I recovered and found 92% weight retention.  The shot was 17 yards, deer hide is amazing.  I'll bet the fellas were real keen on recovering lead when they had the opportunity.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 02:40:27 AM by WadePatton »
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2016, 02:50:44 AM »
Without an argument. I seriously wonder how many of us could do it. Without a satellite phone, your cell phone. Grab your rifle, bedding, couple pounds of jerky,water,cooking gear,hawk an knife. An come back in six months. Without any human intervention. Interesting thought. Rendezvous are one thing but six long months. Oh well just a thought.

Tmas

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2016, 03:51:15 AM »
All of this is great, but no one even 225 years ago would do it on foot. May be in a  boat or canoe, or horse and pack mule.  Also most would schedule at least one if not three resupply trips. Non the less it sounds like a fun trip.

MAJORJOEL:

The Sell is a first class gun.  I love the patch box detail, just the right amount.

How long is the barrel?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 06:10:04 AM by Tmas »

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2016, 04:10:12 AM »
 Anyone heading out for 6 months, would have transportation. [ Boat/canoe/horse or horses]  If hunting for deer , you'd need this in order to get the hides back .  The modern notion of someone just walking out into the wilderness with what they can carry  for a " long hunt " is a romantic notion at best.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2016, 05:22:20 AM »
Bob your right. But would be impressed. Most of the longhunters Seem to travel in groups. According to the books I have. The mountain man by horse. With resupply at a fort, trading post or rendezvous.

54ball

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2016, 07:13:41 AM »
Things to consider is the primary purpose for the arm. Some of our ideas or theories are skewed by romantic notions and intrusions of our reality and the reality of other periods and places. For instance 1840s Appalachia is not really the same place as 1770s Appalachia. Geographically yes but for everything else...not so much.

 Since the OP asked about early Lancasterian rifles lets consider the time, purpose , place and for whom they were built.

 Time 1763-1783. Most scholars agree this era was the period in which the American Longrifle and the American Rifleman emerged. Very very few American rifles are positively dated prior to 1770. There is period documentation of these early rifles but very few surviving examples. Examples show that early rifles tend to be of larger bore.

 Purpose, primarily hunting and protection. Hunting for what? Deer sized game, this was the height of the deerskin trade. Protection from what? Men and large predators. It is unwise to be under armed. If your adversary is "rifle armed" it's best you be "rifle armed" as well. This goes for competition in hunting thus acquiring your livelihood and for the more important and dire contest as well. Again it's unwise to be under armed. Bore size of mid 40s and up tend to be more effective in these types of contests and most rifles of this period reflect that.

 The place for the American longrifle in this early period was the hinterlands, the frontiers of the colonies, the back country as you approach the Appalachians, the mountains themselves and the country immediately beyond. It was down the Great Wagon Road starting at Lancaster, through Emmittsburg MD,Winchester VA, down the Shenandoah to Southwest VA and eventually the area that became western NC and TN. As I have studied my family history I see the same place names  as in my study of the history of the American longrifle.

 Now for whom they were built. It is my opinion that the rifle of this period was built for middle or middling class men. Those used it to work for a living either as a hunting tool or as a weapon, likely both.
 The masters of the "longhunt" were the Indians, I dare say the longrifle was as much an Indian arm in this period and afterward as the bow and arrow. The rifle was very prized amongst the Indians, so much so that rifles were part payment of land deals and the British copied Lancaster rifles as items of trade to keep their Indian allies.

 What does all this have to with caliber size? Quite simple, since the rifle of this period 1763-1783, was tool of substance and survival, caliber size reflects that. Too small there is a loss of effectiveness and range. Too large, there is a loss of usability and efficiency. While there is always exceptions, most rifles of this period have bores from the mid .40s to mid .50s. The first US rifle, the 1792 Contract had a specified bore size of around .49. Personally I think that is typical and an all around good size for the frontier rifle.   
   

rhbrink

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2016, 02:39:31 PM »
All of this has been very interesting and I tend to agree with 54ball, the post about hunting elephants with a 36 got a little bit of far out! I think? So I'm thinking and just my opinion the smaller caliber rifles probably were not in wide use until after 1800 more or less although there certainly could have been some made well before that date and I'm sure that some might have made the trip over the Atlantic.

Thanks guys,

RB

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2016, 04:00:54 PM »
My wife, Nancy O'Malley was the principal investigator of the University of Kentucky excavation at the actual site of Fort Boonesborough in Kentucky. It was occupied from roughly 1775 through 1790 and only used as a defensive garrison until just after the revolution. Along with all of the typical artifacts found on site gun flints (both English and French) rusty metal, bone, ceramic, glass, etc. were round balls (some fired some not). She did find larger bore balls (.52 cal), but also one that measured .35 (in our world .36 cal) which would lead me to believe that smaller bores were perhaps not uncommon during that period. The .35 ball was un-fired.
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2016, 04:51:41 PM »
A .35 cal. Ball that had not been fired would give no indication of whether it was intended to be a single rifle round, or buck shot to be shot in a smoothbore. Buck and ball was very common during this time period.

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Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2016, 06:13:39 PM »
A .35 cal. Ball that had not been fired would give no indication of whether it was intended to be a single rifle round, or buck shot to be shot in a smoothbore. Buck and ball was very common during this time period.

 Hungry Horse
Agreed, but does not eliminate the possibility.
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2016, 07:46:12 PM »
..or a pistol projectile.
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2016, 09:03:01 PM »
Horse, pack horse, wagon or all 3?
Daryl

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ddoyle

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Re: Small Bores
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2016, 10:28:07 PM »
Quote
ran into some disgruntled Shawnee?     
 How many lbs. of lead would you be comfortable carrying into the frontier?

What ever was loaded in my rifle at the time they showed up.  Because we would either come to an understanding or it would become a knife/ax/tooth/rock fight about 2 seconds after that ball was fired.   I cannot reload faster then a young guy can sprint 100 yards so I do not see  how letting things deteriorate into a gun battle would serve my interest ;)

Easier to get along then to lug lead.  ;)