Aqua fortis. First time user and first build

[Diane]

Help please. First gun build and I used Aqua fortis. Curly Maple wood.  I did three applications, color looked wonderful. I then neutralized with baking soda. Got the sizzle and then wiped off with clean wet cloth. Problem is....most of my nice color went with it.  I now had a reddish barrel. Not at all what I wanted. Can I reapply the Aqua fortis?

[smallpatch]

Did you blush the aqua fortis? 

[Diane]

Yes.  After each application. I did three separate applications.

[rich pierce]

Pictures?  What does the color look like when the stock is wet with water?

[Diane]

This is after 1 application of AF and blushing.



This is after the 3rd application of AF and neutralization.

[Diane]

Wetting with water offers only a small contrast.

[frogwalking]

Did you seal or put anything on the stock before you applied the aqua Fortis?  Where did you get the AF?  I am fishing for a reason to explain your experience. 

[Joe S.]

doesn't look red from here.That maple won't pop till it gets a few coats of BLO on it.Are you asking about the curl,darker color?

[Diane]

Stock was whiskered and sanded only.  No other finishes were applied before Aqua Fortis.  Aqua fortis was from Track of the Wolf.  I understand that every piece of wood is different, but husband treated his gun from the same bottle.

[Diane]

I am wondering if I didn't apply ENOUGH heat for fear of scorching the wood. Also i would like to know what the time frame is for neutralizing after blushing?

[WadePatton]

I am wondering if I didn't apply ENOUGH heat for fear of scorching the wood. Also i would like to know what the time frame is for neutralizing after blushing?

This depends upon the acidity of the solution you begin with.  Not all AF is the same.  And yes, you have to take it right up to near scorch (if using a torch as I have) maybe less risk with heat gun.

That's all I got, haven't used it much, but your remaining color looks as mine did before I heated it. 

[Acer Saccharum]

I have been too overzealous with the heat gun, and have toasted some areas of my stocks. (yes, stocks, I'm a slow learner)

I use plenty of heat, and have never neutralized the wood. Ammonia will also neutralize wood, and would not leave behind any white residue as with baking soda.

[smallpatch]

It looks like you've done everything right.  Unfortunately, you will only get figure to pop that is actually there.  Before you put any finish on it, you can add stain for additional color or to change tone.
A light spray of water will show what it will look like with finish. And don't use BLO.  It doesn't dry.

[Chowmi]

I think we have diverged from the original question in the post, which is "why did the stock go from a nice red with figure after the first application of AF, to then a dull amber after the third application?"

there is nice figure evident in the first photo, so it is not a question of the curl or figure in the wood, it is a question of why the color went from red to amber. 

I'm not an expert here, but a few questions arise.  Was enough heat given on the last two coats?  What was the concentration of the baking soda, and could it be that there was so much powder in the solution that we are seeing residual powder which is muting the nice red color she had at the beginning? 

I do not know why this happened, but if all else fails I would stain it with LMF Lancaster Maple to get the red back.  I recently finished a stock of really nice curly maple with AF and was surprised at how little red came out with Aqua Fortis and a fair amount of heat. It was more grey/brown than red.   I then stained it with LMF Lancaster Maple, and it is gorgeous.

Just a few thoughts from a newbie.

[FALout]

If it looked good after the first application of AF and heat blushing, why a second or third attempt?  I'd try some more heat even though you have neutralized it, then move on.  You could use some stain, but even if you had a scrap piece of the same wood, your staining results may vary unless you go through the same process as before.  Staining now can be nerve racking since actual color will vary to what has already been done.  Sometimes you just have to move on to finishing it, in time you might really like the color when done.

I try to use as little water as possible on my stocks, I hate cleaning up the whiskers.  Try using wiping acetone or lacquer thinner on the stock to see the truer color/appearance .

[Nordnecker]

This is interesting. I'm no expert and can only speak from my own experience. When I played around staining wood scraps, it seamed like one good aplication of AF and heat produced a definate red color. Successive coats were browner and lighter. I wonder, too, why did you put on additional coats if it was right the first time?
I just finnished a rifle. My first coat didn't get into all the incised lines and I had to do another. It did not turn out as red as I had hoped.

[frogwalking]

I have long ago gone to staining with ferric nitrate.  I always seem to get a pleasing color, and what ever curl is present seems to be emphasized.  (I also don't neutralize.)  I have much less experience than many here, but I question the quality of the TOW AF.  One more question:  Did you dissolve iron in the acid before using? 

[flinchrocket]

I can't say what happened, but it looks like you didn't get it hot enough on the last coat of AF. The white
color you have is probably residue from the baking soda, and if you had a lot of fizzing going on that
means you had a lot of AF that needed neutralized.
           I agree with Fallout that you should wipe down your stock with acetone or denatured alcohol to
see what color you have then go from there.
           If you decide to put on another coat of AF wet down the stock with it, let it dry for an hour or so,
then apply your heat. If you use a heat gun you can see what your doing better than say the burner on the
stove. Get it hot enough that you can see it change color, then heat it just a little more. Wait 30 min. or
so for the stock to cool, then you can neutralize it with ammonia. If you get the wood hot enough to
evaporate the AF I don't see the need to neutralize the stock, that's just my opinion.

[smallpatch]

The stock may be a bit green yet.  Hard to tell from the photos.  That would indicate that it probably didn't blush properly.  I've never found the need to blush between coats of ferric nitrate.  Two coats, allowed to dry, then blush with heat.
This is a chemical reaction with the tannins in the wood.  Again, each piece is different.  If the tannins are not there, the reaction won't happen. 
Adjust darkness and tint with stain, then finish.  You can increase the contrast of the figure by staining then rubbing back.

[Hungry Horse]

 After reading the advice given here, its obvious to me that nobody seems to use aqua fortis the way I do. I first make sure it is a good strong mixture, that will no longer eat up metal filings. I then slather a good heavy coat on the previously prepared stock. Now, I tend to like the curl very dark, so when I apply the heat, I don't stop until the stock looks like its been given a good coat of flat black spray paint. I neutralize with a baking soda bath, but not too heavy on the soda. I would rather do a couple of light washes, rather than one heavy one. The stock will whisker up, but, what the heck, It still pretty black. The whiskering process will remove a lot of the black, and convert most of the black spots to a dark brown. The light spots will usually either be a light reddish brown, honey gold, or a combination of the two. If i want additional color, I either use a spirit stain, or tint the finish.
 I have been experimenting with a tannic acid treatment, before the aqua fortis treatment, as shown on this forum. So far the scraps of curly maple I've done have come out very well.

     Hungry Horse

[crankshaft]

  I was advised by a few guys to apply walnut stain before the AF.  ?  ?  It did seem to help bring out the curl? ?

[flehto]

Bought some AF from Kettenburg awhile back and it produced the same color as what you're getting. Saw some of his LRs and he evidently likes the lighter color. I contacted him about the light color and then he shipped 8 more free bottles and  I have no idea for this.....asked him why and he never answered me. Never used any of his AF because of the light color.

Have used Wahkon Bay AF and this is much darker. In fact, only used it on a Hawken and it looked good.

Also tried ferric nitrate and this yielded a very rich red color....although on the dark side.

As was said....whatever colorant is used, it won't "make" curl......Fred

[WadePatton]

  I was advised by a few guys to apply walnut stain before the AF.  ?  ?  It did seem to help bring out the curl? ?

Be careful where you get your advice, there's a lot of it out there.  for free ...

I pre-charged my maple with tannins from cheap red wine.  But every piece of wood is different and you should TEST TEST TEST your process before applying it to the whole works.

This may be quite challenging for a "pre-carve" user, but there's wood aplenty to test on when you start with a phat plank.  I tried AF, Vinegar/iron, wine and all sorts of variations before involving the stock proper.  Each tree picks up character (minerals/etc) from the particular location it was grown, these things keep woodworking interesting.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Bought some AF from Kettenburg awhile back and it produced the same color as what you're getting. Saw some of his LRs and he evidently likes the lighter color. I contacted him about the light color and then he shipped 8 more free bottles and  I have no idea for this.....asked him why and he never answered me. Never used any of his AF because of the light color.

Have used Wahkon Bay AF and this is much darker. In fact, only used it on a Hawken and it looked good.

Also tried ferric nitrate and this yielded a very rich red color....although on the dark side.

As was said....whatever colorant is used, it won't "make" curl......Fred

I also purchased some from Eric sometime back and had the same experience as you did. If my stocks don't turn a dark red/brown after the heat treatment I follow up with a stain to get the desired color I want. Some maple comes out OK and others come out a bit light in color for my taste that's when I use the stain to enhance the color. Also the finish has a lot to do with the final color some oil finishes bring out the deep redish - brown tone other oils do not. You must have a scrap piece of the wood you are working with handy to test on.

[Diane]

THANKS to ALL!! LOTS of wonderful help and info here!!  After reading all of your comments, I am thinking I just didn't put enough heat to it.  When I neutralized it, there was a LOT of sizzle and bubbling (I would say it was like hydrogen peroxide). Also, I just went back at with the heat gun in the barrel groove and got some more pop out of the curl. I've always understood that if the Curl ain't there, it ain't there. It is what it is, varying from tree to tree. Same as with the tannins. So...that saying, I'm going to give it another whirl with AF, let it dry a couple of hours, then put the HEAT to it again and see what happens.