Author Topic: Jim Kibler kits  (Read 76263 times)

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #125 on: May 16, 2016, 05:54:53 PM »
This thread contains pictures of the Whitson rifle he used for inspiration:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37648.0
Different gun than the Whitson in Ivey's book but very very similar. They are almost identical. Regardless, either one of these guns are ideal for reproduction.
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Offline JTR

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #126 on: May 16, 2016, 07:00:30 PM »
Jim used a John Whitson NC rifle as inspiration for his kit. I am pretty sure many Whitson rifles had walnut stocks. I own a walnut stocked Mathew Gillespie rifle and have seen far more southern mountain rifles with walnut stocks than with maple. So I would not hesitate ordering one in walnut. Just look in the ALR library at the originals in walnut.

Dennis

My most likely made by John Whitson rifle, that looks just like Jims rifles, has a walnut stock.

John

To borrow a quote from another message board I follow; "without pictures, it never happened!"   ;)

I'd sure be interested in seeing some pictures of another original Whitson as would others following this thread!  Thanks!


My mistake; I should have said Attributed to Whitson, probably Joseph, by a couple guys that know these guns much better than I.

Here's a link to the thread, and I found out about Whitson after the gun was discussed. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=28878.0

This is not the gun that Jim modeled his kit after, just a gun that he too thought might be by Whitson.

John
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Offline mikeyr

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #127 on: May 16, 2016, 07:12:46 PM »
I "had" made the decision to get this kit in 36cal, any reason to go to .40 ?  I don't plan on doing any serious game hunting with this, it will likely on be a paper puncher and then I thought why limit myself to paper ?  I do have a 50cal Hawken to hunt game with.  I know some states limit you to 40 for hunting is that the only reason to go to 40 ?
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #128 on: May 16, 2016, 07:41:27 PM »
I "had" made the decision to get this kit in 36cal, any reason to go to .40 ?  I don't plan on doing any serious game hunting with this, it will likely on be a paper puncher and then I thought why limit myself to paper ?  I do have a 50cal Hawken to hunt game with.  I know some states limit you to 40 for hunting is that the only reason to go to 40 ?
Personal preference thing I think. If I were to build this gun I'd go with a .29 or a .45. Er...ah...wait, it isn't available in those calibers! ;)
If you're not going past 50 yards the .36 will be fine. If you're planing on shooting alot at 100 yards you might consider the .40
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Offline bama

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #129 on: May 16, 2016, 08:27:04 PM »
It would only be personal preference because there is not that much difference between the two calibers. My wifes rifle is a 36 and she shot a 47 2X at 100 yards offhand on a 100 yard 8 ring bull with this little rifle. I have not been able to match that with my 50 or 54.

One if the best flintlock shooters in this country shoots a 40 cal, he consistantly shoots in the 170's in the flintlock offhand agg.

So both can be very accurate. I once asked him if the wind had much effect on the little 40. He just grinned at me and said "I don't shoot when the wind is blowing". I have watched him stand on the line and wait and wait until he gets the wind like he likes it, then he will shoot. I think this is one of the main differences between great shooters and most of us average shooters. Most of us lack that type of attitude. :P
Jim Parker

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galudwig

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #130 on: May 16, 2016, 09:43:30 PM »
Jim used a John Whitson NC rifle as inspiration for his kit. I am pretty sure many Whitson rifles had walnut stocks. I own a walnut stocked Mathew Gillespie rifle and have seen far more southern mountain rifles with walnut stocks than with maple. So I would not hesitate ordering one in walnut. Just look in the ALR library at the originals in walnut.

Dennis

My most likely made by John Whitson rifle, that looks just like Jims rifles, has a walnut stock.

John

To borrow a quote from another message board I follow; "without pictures, it never happened!"   ;)

I'd sure be interested in seeing some pictures of another original Whitson as would others following this thread!  Thanks!


My mistake; I should have said Attributed to Whitson, probably Joseph, by a couple guys that know these guns much better than I.

Here's a link to the thread, and I found out about Whitson after the gun was discussed. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=28878.0

This is not the gun that Jim modeled his kit after, just a gun that he too thought might be by Whitson.

John

Thanks for bringing up the link to that thread JTR.  I do remember the "ebay rifle" discussion now, but I never made the connection to it possibly being a Whitson rifle.  Now I recognize the "other" picture on Jim's kit gun page.  I also forgot you had a bunch of good close-up pictures of the various parts as well. Thanks for those! 

One question I do have: does your gun have a muzzle cap?  It's really difficult for me to definitively say from the pix in Ivey's and Noble's books whether those Whitson guns pictured had muzzle caps.  Please understand that I'm not asking in order to dispute anything about Whitson gun traits.  Your rifle appears to have a muzzle cap so I'm curious about the dimensions and "style."

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #131 on: May 16, 2016, 09:59:44 PM »
We have timed events here, so our options are limited to shooting when it's windy, or shooting when it's really windy  ;D     The smaller calibers can be an advantage, since the lack of recoil lets most run them at a decent velocity.  If you compare a .54 at 1200 f/sec
and a .36 or .40 at 2000 f/sec  perceived advantages of the larger ball are mitigated by shooters often shooting lighter chargers due to recoil

draton2681

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #132 on: May 20, 2016, 04:37:33 AM »
More Pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #133 on: May 20, 2016, 02:49:51 PM »
More Pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No kidding. You guys are the slowest builders ever. ::)
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thimble rig

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #134 on: May 20, 2016, 03:17:19 PM »
I'm almost done putting the finish on and have to brown the barrel them I can take some pictures.It really is a fun build.Jim made this way to easy.I should have had it done a long time ago.But work has been so crazy I haven't had much time to work on it.

Offline mikeyr

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #135 on: May 20, 2016, 07:11:45 PM »
 no, i am not the slowest builder.  I don't have my kit yet :)

 Well I started one rifle 40 years ago and its not finished, maybe I am slow.
...let's finish a rifle I started back in the 70's...

draton2681

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #136 on: May 21, 2016, 05:23:53 AM »
Those of you that have your kit, what fitting have you had to do? My inletting experience is limited and so far has been a disaster. Is there a lot of polishing to do? What have you done or going to do to customize your rifle? lets talk about these kits since we can't get completed photos. even some pictures as you go would be nice. Thanks

Offline crankshaft

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #137 on: May 21, 2016, 05:46:47 AM »

 Very  Nice kit,  I may get one someday. 
 Then,  I would feel the urge to scribble J, Kibler on the bbl..... ;D

Offline Curt Lyles

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #138 on: May 21, 2016, 01:05:08 PM »
Thimble rig 
     Would there be a chance of lookin at your rifle when you get it done as i have 2 of these ordered ,one for a friend and one for me.I live just down the road from you in Middlebury.If you want to bring it over ,I have a range where you could run it thru the gears and give a test report on it . Curt

thimble rig

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #139 on: May 21, 2016, 03:36:02 PM »
What kind of problems are you having inletting.I didn't have any problems with mine.Put a good draft on the lock pate and she should go in might have to shave a little off the lock mortise.Take the lock apart first. then inlet the plate then start putting the parts back on the lock plate 1 at a time and fit it in the mortise use transfer color and remove wood as needed.Yoy will have to square the mortises up on the end where the thimbles go.but you shouldn't have to take much wood off.Yoy will have to sand and polish up the the trigger guard butt plate and the rest of the parts.Then finish them as you want.Oh yeah have to draw file the barrel and polish to.Dove tails are already cut just a little fitting is all you have to do.Veyr little wood removal of the stock to finish it.Had to tweak the rear of the trigger guard to get it to go down.The wood to metal finish is excellent.The holes are already drilled in the stock for the barrel pins and the trigger guard.You just have to drill through the lugs that's all.I didn't put a nose cap or patch box on it.Staing with Tannic acid and then iron nitrate then using tung oil for finish my Chambers oil dried up Darn it.Curt I will have to take you up on youre offer sometime if  I wasn't busy working 6 days a week and trying to get ready to go up to lansing in a couple of weeks to a 3 day shoot.Also working on my smooth bore rifle too.Do you belong to the stone trace regulators muzzleloader club?

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #140 on: May 21, 2016, 04:54:14 PM »
Thimble rig,

Thanks for the positive feedback.  I don't believe draton2681 has a kit, but was rather just referring to past difficulties he's had with inletting other projects. 

We will be putting together some videos soon that will show what is required.  As to the inletting, it really is pretty close.  What I did is make it a close as possible while accounting for the variation in cast parts.  So, I made the inletting  fit a part on the small end of the scale with virtually no fitting at all.  If you happen to get a casting on the larger end of the spectrum, there will be a touch more fitting.  With this said, what I'm talking about is very minor at most. 

We've had some really good feedback so far.  One gentleman reported that he had the gun together and stained in a couple of days.

As always, thanks for the positive feedback and helping make this a big success. 

All the best,
Jim

J Hollis

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #141 on: May 21, 2016, 06:20:09 PM »
Thought I might comment as someone who has never assembled a rifle before for those who aren't sure about taking the plunge.  My rifle is basically in the white, I will drill and tap the vent today.  Mine is one of the earlier kits that required cutting dove tails for under lugs and sights as well as tapping the vent liner.  Really I am glad that mine came that way - my last under lug looks much better than my first and my sights better than the lugs.  Any issues that I ran into was my own doing.  I got a little tripped up precisely spotting my holes on the trigger plate.  I changed over to my drill press and got much better results.  Others may not have that issue - I just found that worked for me.  Wood inletting was minimal, I removed more wood in the lock mortise to make the pan flush with the barrel but it still wasn't much.  By the time that inletting the pipes came I was getting a little cocky.  As the stock tapers down toward the muzzle things got narrow in a hurry.  The hole that I needed to drill in the last pipe tab fell where the part was joined together.  Whatever that material is my drill wouldn't go through.  My confidence had increased at that point so I simply moved over a 1/16 and re drilled and plugged the original hole - you would never know.  I have enjoyed the project and have leaned quite a lot.  As long as things go well with the vent today I will count it as a complete success. If another one showed up at my door today I know that it would be completed much more quickly and with fewer missteps.  Also I have spoken with Jim twice and he was quite helpful and understanding despite the obvious nature of the question.  Overall I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this to the beginner.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #142 on: May 21, 2016, 06:50:39 PM »
J Hollis,

Interesting about the pipe.  Apparently the pre-drilled hole in the wood fell on the place the ramrod pipes were spot welded together.  This must have been a hard spot.  I'll look into this.

Thanks,
Jim

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #143 on: May 21, 2016, 10:56:48 PM »
I work on mine when I have time and lately that been sparse. Here are some tips that might help you, just bear in mind I am talking about my kit, each will vary slightly.

Regards to inlet of lock. On mine all I did was dissemble lock then file a slight draft on the plate. I kept filing the plate until it fits the mortise, don't let it fit tightly or you might chip the wood taking it in and out. Also when you finish it the finish probably will swell the wood making it even tighter.

Then assemble the lock and put some inletting color (I use Prussian Blue) on all the parts that might contact wood. Put the lock in and tap it lightly so the color will show where wood/metal contact. Pull lock, relieve wood where contact was made and repeat until lock is against barrel and operates without binding on any of the wood. I had very little to remove.

Trigger plate needed a little relief of wood in the rear to make it fit perfectly.
The only problem I ran into with the triggers were the top of the trigger bars were contacting the sear bar. I removed about .050" off the top of the sear bar and that took care of the problem. With the trigger bar screws and in place make sure you have a little space between the trigger bars (both front and rear) You can test this by moving unset trigger back and forth to see when it contacts the sear bar. Mine had no play and just touching unset front trigger would trip the lock.

Oh, one more thing make sure you file enough draft/metal off the sides of the tang that it will easily slip into the mortise. Also be sure to draw file the barrel before you force it into the barrel channel. If not you will have lots of fun taking the barrel/tang in and out of the stock. You do not have much wood in the forearm to man handle pulling a tight barrel/tang out of the stock :(

Hope this all makes sense.
Dennis


« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 11:07:58 PM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #144 on: May 21, 2016, 11:06:13 PM »
Quote
Any issues that I ran into was my own doing.  I got a little tripped up precisely spotting my holes on the trigger plate.  I changed over to my drill press and got much better results.

I find a drill bit that fits the holes through the wrist for the tang/trigger plate. I hold the trigger plate in its mortise with clamps then use my drill to "spot" the trigger plate. I then put plate in drill press and drill the holes 2 sizes under the clearance hole for the 8 X 32 tap. I put the plate back in stock then use a #29 drill through the stock holes, making sure the drill is centered in the hole and that is in the smaller hole through the trigger plate. Then I drill the clearance hole. Then put the 8X32 tap through the wrist holes and tap the trigger plate. You should not have problems with tang screw alignment doing it this way.
Dennis
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Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #145 on: May 21, 2016, 11:06:55 PM »
Excellent advice Dennis and thanks for sharing.
Gary
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Offline GANGGREEN

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #146 on: May 22, 2016, 12:22:16 AM »
Oh gosh, I'm so excited I could vomit.  I just got the email.....I JUST GOT THE EMAIL.  Furthermore, I asked Katherine if she remembered seeing my stock and if she could recall how it looked since I sent my own wood.  Not only did she respond, she sent photos.  Like I said, I could puke I'm so excited. I'm expecting delivery on Wednesday maybe. 







The grain in the buttstock area (not the curl, but the grain), is a bit odd, but man, what a handsome piece of wood.  Katherine says that it looks better in real life than in the photos.  I simply can't wait to open that box.......

draton2681

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #147 on: May 22, 2016, 12:30:09 AM »
Jim is correct, I don't have my kit but closed a deal today and I expect it in a few days. I've started a kit from one of the other suppliers. My inletting sucks but I,ve learned alot along the way. It's still not complete as play time is minimal, or at least it's not been a priority during play time. Mostly trying to probe conversation on the thread and see what I'm in for when the kit gets here and learn what everyone else is doing. Thanks for the helpful and encouraging advise. Please keep it going, I'm sure I'm not the only one with curiosity. God Bless You all>

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #148 on: May 22, 2016, 12:37:54 AM »
Oh gosh, I'm so excited I could vomit...


two words:

GAW JUSS!

 ;D ;D ;D


Hold to the Wind

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Jim Kibler kits
« Reply #149 on: May 22, 2016, 03:49:32 AM »
Gee Ganggreen, Now the pressure is on YOU.  That is a gorgeous piece of tiger stripe, and looks like Jim did you right.  Now you have to get that Aqua Fortis right.  ;-)  No worries, right?  Heh, heh.