fancy hair trigger

[Chris Treichel]

Managed to find this fancy hair trigger. It is non functional right now since it is missing at least one or two springs. In the picture the parts are still covered in gunk. I have cleaned everything and put it back together. Does anyone have a picture of the springs that go on a trigger like this? Also figured some here might like to see the guts of this.

[smallpatch]

Strange.... Not sure how you'd ever use that in a rifle.  Your wrist would have to be 8" tall to get the sear far enough away.
I'm confused.

[Chris Treichel]

I think it must have come from a target rifle of some kind with a rather wide barrel???

[Hemo]

This has to be German. Only the Germans would over-engineer a simple mechanism to this extent!

Gregg

[Bill Paton]

Smallpatch,
One like it fits in my 22 lb muzzleloading schutzen rifle made in Morges, Switzerland by Bachelard. The wrist is big, but somewhat under 8”! 

Gregg,
The SWISS were known as the watchmakers, not the Germans.    I’ve seen similar triggers on other Swiss schutzens in Swiss museums. 

Chris,
I took mine apart 50 years ago and repaired it. All the original springs are there and the mechanism works fine now, although I wonder if the six stages might actually slow the action as compared with a conventional set trigger. I will take the trigger out (it removes with a single knurled thumb screw) and compare it with your photo. After 50 years, I am a bit reluctant to disassemble the thing again to see the springs, being less enthusiastic now to risk messing it up. If important to you, my arm could be twisted.
I can email you photos of the rifle and the still assembled trigger, but haven’t figured out the ALR photo posting dance yet.

Bill Paton wapaton.sr@gmail.com

[Dave B]

That is a great shot. I am in possession of one very similar. Here are the springs in position for the leavers in this trigger. Untill I take it apart I can not be sure they are exactly the same but they are close.



Here is another not in my collection but interesting none the less.

[Bob Roller]

Smallpatch,
One like it fits in my 22 lb muzzleloading schutzen rifle made in Morges, Switzerland by Bachelard. The wrist is big, but somewhat under 8”! 

Gregg,
The SWISS were known as the watchmakers, not the Germans.    I’ve seen similar triggers on other Swiss schutzens in Swiss museums. 

Chris,
I took mine apart 50 years ago and repaired it. All the original springs are there and the mechanism works fine now, although I wonder if the six stages might actually slow the action as compared with a conventional set trigger. I will take the trigger out (it removes with a single knurled thumb screw) and compare it with your photo. After 50 years, I am a bit reluctant to disassemble the thing again to see the springs, being less enthusiastic now to risk messing it up. If important to you, my arm could be twisted.
I can email you photos of the rifle and the still assembled trigger, but haven’t figured out the ALR photo posting dance yet.

Bill Paton wapaton.sr@gmail.com

One of my German customers told me these Deutschestechers were made by watch makers,
most of them in the French speaking section of Switzerland. I don't know if anyone over there is still making them or not.

Bob Roller

[smallpatch]

Ok, 8" may be a bit of an exaggeration, but I know most of the guns I build, it's almost impossible to get a modern Davis set trigger into.  Not enough trigger bar left once you get it filed down to clear the sear bar.
Maybe my perspective is off, but it looks like at least an inch of height on the side plates. That's huge!
Guess I like the skinny wrists!

[Chris Treichel]

Thank you for all the information and pictures. There was a broke screw aft of the trigger so I figure that is where the wire spring went to. I think I can fix that bit without causing any damage. Honestly, I was sweating bullets during dissasembly and reassembly due to the pins but I got it back together in less than ten minutes.

[Bob Roller]

This has to be German. Only the Germans would over-engineer a simple mechanism to this extent!

Gregg

Back in the 1980's I made a few double set triggers with a separate sear to hold the trigger set.
The small advantage that it had was that the front trigger never changed angles no matter how fine it was
adjusted. The adjustment screw was in the front trigger like seen on French single set triggers.
These Swiss made triggers are works of art. I once owned a pocket watch,coin silver,#12 hunters case made by the International Watch Co. in Schaffhausen,Switzerland that was DIGITAL. It had two small windows and the numbers would shift every minute and every hour. It was made in 1873,the same year my maternal grand father was born. I showed it to two jewelers and one said it was a "A !@*%&@ old foreign watch and next to worthless". The second one said he had no idea about it but told me it was rare and probably valuable.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

Strange.... Not sure how you'd ever use that in a rifle.  Your wrist would have to be 8" tall to get the sear far enough away.
I'm confused.

Smallpatch,
Beginning in 1978 I started making a Bailes/Manton style flintlock for Helmut Mohr in Mayen/Hausen Germany so he could make a modern reproduction of a Boutet pistol. He had a single set trigger made by Fritz Noll in a town near to him but it was a high profile type so I revamped the lock mechanism with the sear higher in the plate and cured the problem. I made about 125 of these locks like this so there is a way to incorporate a set trigger into a thin wristed rifle using the altered sear,

Bob Roller

[Mike Brooks]

All looks like a bunch of over complicated hooey to me.....

[Hemo]

Quoth Bill Paton:
     Gregg,
     The SWISS were known as the watchmakers, not the Germans.    I’ve seen similar triggers on other Swiss schutzens in Swiss museums. 


Ah, of course! Swiss watches! It certainly does look like it was made by a watchmaker, showing off. When I made the statement about German overengineering, I was thinking about tanks!

Gregg

[smallpatch]

Bob,
I've actually modified a couple of sear bars, i.e. bent, and had some success getting a lower profile set trigger to work.
How were yours modified to raise the sear bar?

[Bob Roller]

Bob,
I've actually modified a couple of sear bars, i.e. bent, and had some success getting a lower profile set trigger to work.
How were yours modified to raise the sear bar?

It was a redesign of the bridle and a thicker material for the sear itself. The first sears for that particular lock were made from .3125 O-1. The others after that were .4375 O-1. The thing was to reposition the sear and the
thicker O-1 enabled me to do it. ALL of my locks use O-1 sears and I do NOT recommend trying to bend them.
A lot of beginning makers simply inlet a barrel and a lock and then wonder why they can't get a trigger to work or get the wrist as slim as they wanted. In the case of the German-Boutet project there was no such problem because it was a pistol and only needed room for the set trigger.
The redesigned bridle put the sear screw hole higher and the thicker steel allowed a big modification of the sear's profile. It worked fine.

Bob Roller