TVM arrived!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Well I decided to go with a TVM, as much as I would have liked to go with a Kibler kit I couldn't swing the 'nuther $225.

I'm impressed with the TVM kit though.  A lot is already done, barrel breached, fully inletted, ramrod channel done, trigger channel inlet, and the lock mostly inlet.  I see the sideplate is not inlet, nor is the entry thimble or nosecap.  I am tempted to go quasi-schimmel with this and not bother with them.  It does have the buttplate started so I'll have to go with that.

Now where to start?  Barrel staples? Tang screw? Lock?  Side pannels?

I better go read my Recreating the American Longrifle.

[PPatch]

The order of build for a pre-carve is a little different than described in R.A.L. which is for building from a plank.

If the barrel needs draw filing or any finishing to the metal do that before you do anything mentioned below...

You will want to locate your touch hole on the barrel first, make a mark where it will go, it should fall immediately in front of the breech face which should be exactly 1/2 inch in from the rear of the barrel. Mark the touch hole centered vertically on the flat and at 5/8ths inch from the back of the barrel.

Next put the barrel in the stock and as best you can check where the pan on the lock is relative to the touch hole mark.  If it does not look like the touch hole is centered on the pan you will have to move the barrel back a bit until it is. However at this point you could inlet the lock about half way so you will know where the pan will end up then fully inlet the barrel bringing it back to align with the pan.

This is careful chisel work mostly, a very sharp chisel. You want the back of the barrel solidly in touch with the wood when you are finished bedding it. I mostly use a 1/4" flat chisel and a 3/8ths wide #3 sweep for this work.

Once the barrel is in go ahead and bring in the lock until its bolster is snug to the side flat. From that you could move to any part of the build you desire. Generally I do all the metal finishing before proceeding.

Have fun and good luck with your build.

dave

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Oh, yeah.  Touch hole is already installed.  I have not forced the lock all the way down into the mortise yet but the touchole-pan alignment looks to be correct.

When you say finish the barrel you mean polish it and brown it first?

[kaintuck]

New barrels sometimes have the finish marks from the grinder.....need to be flat filed till its smooth. Then put yer sights and barrel tenons in it.
I don't brown till I'm done handling it....barrels are soft, and get scratches, the browning is my last chore...
Marc n tomtom

[davebozell]

Check the tutorials.  There are several threads that describe the order for finishing your rifle, depending on what you are starting with.  My only advise is to go slow and check back here if you run into an issue.  99% of the time, someone else has had the same problem and received good advise here.

[PPatch]

Oh, yeah.  Touch hole is already installed.  I have not forced the lock all the way down into the mortise yet but the touchole-pan alignment looks to be correct.

When you say finish the barrel you mean polish it and brown it first?

"finish" means draw filing if it needs it and then taken to something like 220 grit finish before you bed it. Doing this ensures a tight fit of the barrel in the wood. You will brown or do whatever final finish you desire as one of the last things you do. You wouldn't want to be working with and doing the barrel bedding with a totally finished barrel due to the possibly of your finish getting scratched or dinged up as you work.

Don't be forcing anything. Typically the lock mortise on a pre-carve requires some careful widening before it fits the lock plate properly. It is likely too that you will have to deepen and accommodate the internals of the lock as you bring it in toward the barrel so the bolster lies where it should.

dave

 

[Dennis Glazener]

Typically the lock mortise on a pre-carve requires some careful widening before it fits the lock plate properly.

Not sure how much you have to remove to get the lock in. If its close you might be able to file the edges of the lock plate and remove enough metal to get it to fit the mortise. I absolutely hate trying to open up a pre-carve lock mortise. I have all kinds of trouble taking a small amount of wood off evenly around the mortise.
Dennis

[PPatch]

Typically the lock mortise on a pre-carve requires some careful widening before it fits the lock plate properly.

Not sure how much you have to remove to get the lock in. If its close you might be able to file the edges of the lock plate and remove enough metal to get it to fit the mortise. I absolutely hate trying to open up a pre-carve lock mortise. I have all kinds of trouble taking a small amount of wood off evenly around the mortise.
Dennis

I totally agree Dennis, getting the lock plate to settle into a pre-carve mortise is tricky business requiring some thought and careful stock removal. I think we all work out our methods for doing this. I generally begin with an exacto knife, then resort to lamp black to mark the areas to use a 1/4" chisel to scrape a little wood at a time off the insides of the mortise lip. I might file a bit too. In any case it is one of the first jobs you face with a pre-carved stock.

dave

[Dennis Glazener]

I totally agree Dennis

Shoot! I was hoping someone would say why don't you do it like this dummy, then proceed to give me a simple way to do it so the plate fits like it should.
Dennis

[smallpatch]

Jacque,
Please.... Do yourself a favor.... Get some books, and an education, before you start on this kit.  If this is your first, some education can save turning that $900 kit into a $300 gun.

[T*O*F]

You will want to locate your touch hole on the barrel first, make a mark where it will go, it should fall immediately in front of the breech face which should be exactly 1/2 inch in from the rear of the barrel. Mark the touch hole centered vertically on the flat and at 5/8ths inch from the back of the barrel.

This is poor advice to give a beginner.  Luckily his touch hole is already installed.  Otherwise you should have mentioned that he would need to unbreech the barrel, measure everything to determine how long his breech plug is, and then proceed accordingly.  If he did it your way and they used a plug which has 5/8" of threads like most of them do, he would be screwed right off the bat.
One cannot give exact measurements for unknown entities.

[thimble rig]

Don't forget to check the face of the breech plug to make sure it is in full contact with the bearing surface of the barrel.

[PPatch]

You will want to locate your touch hole on the barrel first, make a mark where it will go, it should fall immediately in front of the breech face which should be exactly 1/2 inch in from the rear of the barrel. Mark the touch hole centered vertically on the flat and at 5/8ths inch from the back of the barrel.

This is poor advice to give a beginner.  Luckily his touch hole is already installed.  Otherwise you should have mentioned that he would need to unbreech the barrel, measure everything to determine how long his breech plug is, and then proceed accordingly.  If he did it your way and they used a plug which has 5/8" of threads like most of them do, he would be screwed right off the bat.
One cannot give exact measurements for unknown entities.

You are correct TOF, I should have recommended he unbreech that barrel and check. Point taken.

dave

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Jacque,
Please.... Do yourself a favor.... Get some books, and an education, before you start on this kit.  If this is your first, some education can save turning that $900 kit into a $300 gun.

Well . . . isn't that kind of what I'm doing here?  Did I mention consulting my copy of Recreating The American Longrifle?  I've been watching a number of Youtube Tutorials.  So far I've found Mike Belleveue's videos to be easy watching and informative.

My question about finishing the barrel came because I didn't think it made sense to finish it all the way.  The barrel is already inletted into the channel so it just doesn't make much sense to file anything more away from the metal - at least not that part the will be in contact with the wood.

I will see what the search tool reveals as far as an "order of assembly".

[Tom Currie]

Black Jaque, I see from your post that you are building a quasi- schimmel. I would encourage you to define exactly want you  want to build as your researched result will be more satisfying in the long run. You've got $900 invested.Mike Bellivue's YouTube videos may be fine for general information but I wouldn't rely on them for specific information on schools or specific styles .

I'd encourage you to do some research as Smallpatch has advised.  

[WadePatton]

Jacque,
Please.... Do yourself a favor.... Get some books, and an education, before you start on this kit.  If this is your first, some education can save turning that $900 kit into a $300 gun.

Well . . . isn't that kind of what I'm doing here?  Did I mention consulting my copy of Recreating The American Longrifle?  I've been watching a number of Youtube Tutorials.  So far I've found Mike Belleveue's videos to be easy watching and informative.

My question about finishing the barrel came because I didn't think it made sense to finish it all the way.  The barrel is already inletted into the channel so it just doesn't make much sense to file anything more away from the metal - at least not that part the will be in contact with the wood.

I will see what the search tool reveals as far as an "order of assembly".

Any grinding or file marks must be removed no matter the dimensions, if one cares for a uniform finish.  Even the guys who rough 'em up pretty good (aging) start with smooth finishes-just as the originals did.

Yes, I think your Peter's book is a fine reference, but it's not the Law.  You mentioned leaving off parts (and we all understand the excitement of a first rifle) and THAT's what some may be concerned with here as far as style and research go.  

Of course any kit presents limitations, but when you speak of taking shortcuts with the kit, visions of a "hack-job" rifle spring to some of our minds.  Because we've seen them.  Some are as concerned with your grasp of a proper Schimmel than your mechanical abilities to put it together.  

In the end, you might be more pleased spending more time and making more mistakes (and thus learning how to fix/avoid them), than short-cutting and avoiding any such mistakes but also possibly "botching" the style.

Enjoy the journey

[smallpatch]

Jacque,
You can't learn to build a gun by just asking questions.  You need a basic knowledge to even know what questions to ask.
When I started, I read and reread everything I could find on the subject, then got answers to specific techniques and procedures as I went.  Still made plenty of mistakes.
Find some assembly books, Chambers has a video on assembling kits, get an education on the style you're interested in, so you can actually build a gun in that style.
All here on this board would be more than happy then to answer and help with actual techniques and challenges.
Gotta put in the ground work first if you're gonna do it right.
Good luck, and I hope this helps.

[Mike Brooks]

Hmmmmm, sounds like you might as well just throw it in the trash......

This ain't rocket science, you'll do fine. Just ask questions here before you mess up.

[Joe S.]

True enough Mike it ain't rocket science but....While still working on my first the one thing I wish I had done would have been to handle or atleast seen up close an original rifle that I was trying to replicate. You can look in a book,look on line try to scale it,whatever.No substitute for having one in your hands if you never built one before IMHO.

[davebozell]

I agree with you Joe.  I always heard that these guns were often very skinny through the barrel.  It wasn't until I was able to handle a contemporary, hand-built rifle, that I learned what skinny really meant.  I had to go back and remove even more wood from an area that I thought couldn't get any smaller.

[Mike Brooks]

First several guns I built all I had to go by was a TC Hawken.

[Joe S.]

Hope you weren't building your fowlers

[thimble rig]

You will do just fine.Just take it slow.Study all you can before you start.If you get frustrated walk away from it for a few days.Dont be afraid to ask questions.This sight has some of the greatest talent you will ever see they have done it all.They wont steer you wrong.Good luck with youre build.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Ok Thimble thanks.  I was beginning to get discouraged with all the reading that seems to be necessary before putting chisel to wood.

[Bill Ladd]

When we say TVM, are we referring to Tennessee Valley Manufacturing or Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading?