Drying and storing maple lumber

[Nordnecker]

I had sawed and stacked a really nice, curly red maple. I stacked it up on treated 6x6's, used nice stickers in between the layers and had it covered with sheet metal. I uncovered it this weekend planning to let it cure a little longer up in the loft. Man, I'm BUMMED. It's got powder post beetle holes everywhere. I doubt if it's worth saving. If I had this to do over again I think I would coat the surfaces of the boards with borax or something.
I had planned to cut 8 or 10 rifle blanks, cabriole legs and build a hunt board or gun rack with this lumber. Now I don't know what to do with it. But if anyone wants a really long, worm- eaten blank, I can hook you up.
Any suggestions on how to keep the bugs out of drying lumber would be nice to know.

[Mike Brooks]

Pesticide works.

[Maalsral]

Put it in your attic next time.

[Dennis Glazener]

No I can't tell you what to use but I know one thing that didn't work for me

I filled my garden spray with a strong mix of liquid Sevin and sprayed several maple blanks before I stacked them to dry in my covered wood shed. Couple of years latter I moved these blanks around to get to some walnut and every one of the maple blanks had powder post Beatles in them, I don't think the Sevin did a thing to keep them out.
Dennis

[Mike Brooks]

Malathion will probably do the trick.

[rich pierce]

Any ideas how it this was avoided back in the day?

[WadePatton]

Good question Rich.

I had PPB get up in my Ash-inside the house (no easy attic access).  But then I heat with wood, so I'm sure I bring a lot of wood-bugs into the house every year.

Yet to find out how deep they got.  Pretty sure they slowed down after some acetone. 

I think I may start shellacking blanks if that will keep 'em out.  But that might over-slow curing sawed lumber.   I have some walnut to cut/stack and found "worm holey" walnut in the woods just today. It was a very very old shell of stump.

I saved it. Scales and such yo.

[Nordnecker]

This was actually a healthy tree. It was half uprooted from the wind, but still alive. In fact the stump is still alive and growing. I cut it down in early January of last year. I did not get it sawed up until early last summer. I didn't put it up in the loft because I was worried that it would be too hot up there and the wood would dry too fast.
I have air dried different types of wood before and haven't had this problem. I don't know of any lumber yard that treats its wood while air drying.

Any ideas how it this was avoided back in the day?

I'd like to read about this, too. I had some pine boards that had PPB in them and was told that the only way to kill them was HEAT. Too much heat too soon can wreak havoc on lumber. I don't know if soaking the green lumber in salt water would do anything.
The truth is, green lumber is HEAVY. It's hard to deal with until it dries a bit, especially 3" thick stuff that is 14 to 16 inches wide.
I did get one rifle made from this tree. It was just a bark edge slab that I was gonna cut into firewood.

[bob in the woods]

I've used borax before. Seems to work.

[Eric Krewson]

Long story; I brought an osage log into my basement and noticed it had PPB in it a few weeks later, next I noticed sawdust falling from my floor joists. The dang things had migrated to my floor joists. $600 worth of treatments with Boracare got rid of them.

There are two types of treatments for PPBs, Boracare which is borax and has an agent to make it soak into the wood and another that is just borax mixed with water and coats the surface.

I spray my osage with Diazanon which will keep the beetles at bay for about 6 months at which point the osage will need another treatment. After a couple of treatments the bugs leave the wood alone, could be they like green wood better than dry.

[bob in the woods]

Since I will be working with this stuff, sawing, scraping, sanding, etc I stay away from these hazardous chemicals /pesticides if I can. The borax has worked fine...actually better than the other "treatments".   

[Scota4570]

Malathion and other modern insecticides decompose very quickly.  They pose no risk to human health in a very short period of time.  That is why they can be used on vegetables.   
http://ces.iisc.ernet.in/energy/HC270799/HDL/ENV/enven/vol347.htm

Old insecticides like DDT were innocuous to humans, and most everything except insects.  It's dangers were grossly over stated.  It does last a long time.  That makes it very good for some purposes, like around your home foundations.  Point is it lasts a very long time, the new types do not.  Anything you can buy, which is not much, it not going to hurt you.  The most common modern material is pytherin, it is a chrysanthemum extract and totally harmless to humans..   

I would be leaning toward fumigation.  The tunnels in the wood allow for the beetle or termite to get air.  The tunnels allow an easy way for a gas to get to them.  If you wrap the wood pile  up in plastic sheet and use a home fumigator or a solvent it should work pretty well.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1375194
These smoke, they are not aerosol. 

Something like chloroform or ether should work really  well.  Hot start fluid for engines would kill bugs really well, it is ether.  A solvent would dissipate and leave no residue on the wood. 

Borax has been mentioned.  As a surface treatment for bug free wood it is a good idea.  Borax dissolves their exoskeleton.   That way the can not get in, in the first place.  Roach-pruf and other borax treatments are easily available and safe. 

[David R. Pennington]

I had ant colonies between the stickered cherry lumber when I broke it down and worm holes, almost lost it. Ok for shelf boards.

[Dennis Glazener]

Borax has been mentioned.  As a surface treatment for bug free wood it is a good idea.  Borax dissolves their exoskeleton.   That way the can not get in, in the first place.  Roach-pruf and other borax treatments are easily available and safe.

How do you apply the Borax? Dry?
Dennis

[oldtravler61]

Put 15 maple stocks in my pole building. Planned (?) The top,bottom an sides smooth. Then painted the ends . Stood them on end in a row. Been fifteen or so years. No bugs no warp. Lucky I guess.

[T*O*F]

Boracare which is borax and has an agent to make it soak into the wood and another that is just borax mixed with water and coats the surface.

Gee, I always thought that water soaked into wood too.  I guess there's no reason to oil a gunstock if the water just coats the surface.   

[Scota4570]

Borax has been mentioned.  As a surface treatment for bug free wood it is a good idea.  Borax dissolves their exoskeleton.   That way the can not get in, in the first place.  Roach-pruf and other borax treatments are easily available and safe.

How do you apply the Borax? Dry?
Dennis

Mix with water and apply.  Here is an example, it's basically Borax.  The home center will have some version. 

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/timbor-p-144.html?gclid=COup7evSm8wCFcdhfgodXYUC-Q

[Eric Krewson]

Two different treatments TOF, I had them both.

I asked for Boracare but they sprayed the other cheaper stuff called Timbor. I am sure some of it soaked into the wood but the surface of my joists looked like they had been coated with sugar like a glazed donut. The stuff fell off the joists continually and really messed up my basement.

I called them back and had them go over the joists with Boracare, the wood soaked it up like a sponge.

I have a lot of experience with borax from treating turkey feathers, it will dissolve in water but goes back to a crystalline coating when it dries.

Another thing; why did you feel the need to make a smart comment about something you appear to have little knowledge of ?

[Eric Krewson]

Bora-Care and Timbor are both borate products used to treat wood, but they could not be more different.  Timbor is in a powder form that is mixed with water.  It is much less expensive but it is intended more for protecting new wood only, or wood that you know does not have any issues.  Timbor will only penetrate the outer layer of the wood so it is more for protection or for treating fungus on the surface of the wood.

If you have an active infestation of termites, powder-post beetles or wood borers deep inside the wood then Timbor would not make it through the wood to kill these insects.  BoraCare is a liquid borate but has an additive, a glycol solution, which allows the product to penetrate through the entire piece of wood, therefore it should be used any time you have an active infestation because you are guaranteed it will kill anything in the wood no matter how deep it is.  Also, BoraCare will last forever in the wood so you will never have to worry about any infestations in the wood that you treat ever again.

Just to recap if you have an existing infestation, you should use Bora-Care.  If you are just treating wood to be used in new construction or surface fungus, then Timbor is fine to use.

[Dennis Glazener]

Been fifteen or so years. No bugs no warp. Lucky I guess.

Yep you have been lucky! I had at least 5 nice maple 8ft X 14 X 2.75 blanks end up like swiss cheese! Several of those were sprayed with liquid Sevin to not avail.

Thanks for the info Scota4570

Eric, thanks for the information on the difference in the two. Will have to get me a bag of the Timbor to treat the blanks that the PPB have not gotten into. The blanks that already have them aren't worth treating now.
Dennis

[WadePatton]

Worth more than double the local price of admission.

Thanks!

[bob in the woods]

I've only used borax /water as a surface treatment when drying lumber, and as I said in my earlier post, it works well in that regard , or at least has for me.  Is there any chance of the " Boracare " product affecting the staining/finishing process of a stock ? 

[Eric Krewson]

Boracare is pretty expensive stuff, that is why the termite people tried to pull a fast one on me and substitute Timbor instead of what I asked for. John Q Public wouldn't have known the difference but I always research anything I don't know anything about so I knew they were trying to pull a fast one on me.

Boracare is apparently pretty good stuff, if your house lumber is treated with it when you build you don't have to have a termite bond on your house.

I would think that borax and water would be sufficient for treating lumber and wouldn't chance Boracare for stock wood. The glycol may change the staining properties of the wood but I don't know as I have never use it on such.  

In the center of this picture of osage billets you can see the offending piece that started the infestation in my basement. I took it outside and torched the PPB holes lightly with my propane torch, no more beetles. Later, when I made a bow out of this piece I found the beetles had only gone into the wood about 3/4", I caught them early.



I was splitting some oak logs for firewood that were infested with BPB and found a first hand example of what they do if left unchecked.

[JCKelly]

Location, location, location?

Dad had powder post beetle problems southern border of Delaware, dry old wood in front porch

Here in the delightful climate of S.E. Michigan I bought 5/6 of a maple tree cut in 1973

Stored in garage. Sold most for stock blanks in the '70's and '80's. Remaining planks still in my detached garage. No beetles - well, at least last time I looked.

Noticed some of you gentlemen with problems are south of M-D line. Would you consider a trade of snow, l-o-n-g winters, sleet & salted roads for a few of your beetles?

[c deperro]

You stated that your tree was cut in January but wasn't saw'n into boards til June. That's plenty of time for bugs to get in under the bark.