Davy Crockett's first rifle

[Dennis Glazener]

I would like to hear others opinion regarding the restored Davy Crockett's first rifle that is in the East TN History Museum in downtown Knoxville. Bluelight and I left home early enough to make a stop by there on the way to Wayne's show. The museum itself was interesting but we were there to see the John Sevier pistol and Crockett's first rifle.

I will admit that I did a double take after reading the information furnished, everything indicated that the rifle was the ORIGINAL rifle. It appears to have just been completed by one of today's top contemporary builders. To be honest I was very disappointed since it appeared to me the museum was trying to pass off a contemporary as the original rifle. In fact I made a point of telling one of the museum employee's that I thought they were doing a disservice to history by not identifying it as a copy and not the ORIGINAL.

When I got to the TN show I discussed the rifle with Randall Pierce (TN rifle student and TN resident). Randall told me that the rifle IS the original but was restored by Houston Harrison at the request of the family that has owned it since Crockett traded the rifle for a horse (I believe I am correct on this).
All I can say is WOW, Houston certainly did an outstanding job. Its a fabulous piece of work. I believe I heard its a York PA style rifle but I am not familiar with the style.
Dennis

[smylee grouch]

I am curious as to what documentation any one has to prove that this rifle is Davy's FIRST rifle. Did he learn to shoot with this rifle? Was this rifle given to him or was it the first rifle that Davy purchased himself? Rather nice starting rifle if it is in fact his first.

[Dennis Glazener]

The museum sign says:

"Betsy" David Crockett's first rifle, c 1803

Loaned by Joe and Art Swann

In 1803, 17 year old David Crockett bought his first gun a Pennsylvania rifle that he described as "a capital one". Three years later, he fell in love with a local girl, Crockett traded it, along with labor, to neighbor John Canaday for a "courting horse". Canaday later sold the gun to James McCuistion, who's descendants still own it.

Here is a link to info on McCistion that dates his ownership of the rifle to "before 1806". http://gmccuistion.com/john1855/b12050.htm

And here is a little more on the subject:
https://www.facebook.com/196361147617/photos/a.196562667617.130246.196361147617/10153171360207618/

I will say that the dark photos shown of the rifle look different than the actual rifle we saw. I was amazed at how light colored the rifle appeared to be, no where near as dark as those shown on those links.
Dennis

[smylee grouch]

Thanks for that Dennis. I have read that someplace before myself but was still curious as to how a 17 year old could afford such a capitol rifle, maybe he bought the rifle used from someone other than the original rifles maker.

[Hungry Horse]

 Longevity was pretty short in a lot of cases back then. Estate sales from that time period show some real deals. Also seventeen years of age was considered full grown at that time. A fine rifle would not be considered a luxury back then, if there was any way to acquire one. He was always a talker, and could talk a bear to death. So it isn't impossible for this to be his first rifle.
 I have seen this gun and believe it to be very much over restored. It might not have looked this good when he owned it.

 Hungry Horse

[gibster]

Dennis - This rifle was displayed at the Norris show a few years. Here are a few pictures that I took. Sorry that the quality isn't any better than it is.

[T*O*F]

Somewhere I have Crockett's autobiography written around 1900.  I remember the mention of that rifle in the book.  It's stashed away somewhere, but IF I can find it, I'll check the reference.

[Ky-Flinter]

..... Crockett's autobiography written around 1900.....

That would be a neat trick since Crockett died at the Alamo in 1836.

-Ron

[Joe S]

“In a museum in Havana, there are two skulls of Christopher Columbus, one when he was a boy and one when he was a man”
 
Mark Twain

[T*O*F]

..... Crockett's autobiography written around 1900.....

That would be a neat trick since Crockett died at the Alamo in 1836.

-Ron

Make that published instead of written.  Better?

[chrisdefrance]

John Bivins left his collection through the years to The Winterthur Library. In the collection there are ten drawings by Houston Harrison and John Bivens that are available at request from the Library two of these drawing are titled "Davy Crockett’s first rifle (full size drawing, with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison);"
The Winterthur Library

John Bivens Collection of Houston Harrison’s

Houston Harrison’s Drawings

Folder 3: drawings of rifles

.8a       German flintlock rifle (full size drawing; 4 rifles with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison, 1988, no. 5);
.8b       Pre-Revolutionary longrifle, Eastern Pennsylvania region (full size drawing; 4 rifles with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison, 1988, no. 4);
.8c       German flintlock rifle (with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison);
.8d       Jacob Dickert rifle (full size drawing, with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison)
.8e       Davy Crockett’s first rifle (full size drawing, with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison);
.8f        Davy Crockett’s first rifle (full size drawing, with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison, 1988, no. 3);
.8g       Tennessee iron mounted rifle, Zacharia Luster, Washington County (full size drawing, with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison, no. 14);
.8h       Joseph Fruwirth, In Wienn, 1722-1797 (full size drawing, with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison, 1991, no. 12);
.8i        Jos. Fruwirth, In Wienn, 1722-1797 (full size drawing, with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison, 1991, no. 4);
.8j        Edward Marshall rifle, Bucks Co., Penn. (full size drawing, with details; drawing by L. H. Harrison, 1991, no. 11) [see also .10]
 
(other rifle drawings are in box of rolled drawings, 07x2.9-.10)
 
http://findingaid.winterthur.org/html/HTML_Finding_Aids/col0828.htm

[Joe S]

.8e       Davy Crockett’s first rifle ;
.8f        Davy Crockett’s first rifle

Ha!  QED.

[spgordon]

.8e       Davy Crockett’s first rifle ;
.8f        Davy Crockett’s first rifle

Ha!  QED.

No ... note that these are two drawings of a rifle (not drawings of two different rifles called his "first").

Scott

[chrisdefrance]

Yes - I did not make that clear. These are really good drawings. I have thought about ordering some of the photographs as well.

[FDR]

The Tenn. State Museum had a Crockett rifle and knife on display when I was a student at Vanderbilt in the early 60's. It might still be there. The Franklin Co Tenn. archives have many of Crockett's papers and other things. He lived for a very short time in Lincoln Co and then moved to the Beans Creek area in Franklin Co. His first wife Polly is buried there in a small country cemetery.  My maternal great great grandfather had a homestead near by.

[Dennis Glazener]

Dennis - This rifle was displayed at the Norris show a few years. Here are a few pictures that I took. Sorry that the quality isn't any better than it is.

Eric,
That may be the rifle but it does not look that way now! Its nowhere near that dark, the lock bolt heads and the cock/tumbler shaft screw head are bright fire blued, there are no handling marks of any kind on the rifle.
Dennis

[gibster]

I thought that it looked darker than the picture on the link above.  The box looks to be the same though.  I think that Randle had a hand in bringing it to the show if I remember right. Maybe he will chime in.  Maybe they did a switch-a-rue and have the real one stashed away somewhere.

[Dennis Glazener]

This is the current looks of the rifle as taken last Thursday with my cell phone. Its a beautiful rifle, far better than my photos make it look, it looks just like it would have left a top shelf contemporary builders bench.













Dennis

[Avlrc]

WOW, some restoration job.  Are they sure it is the same gun? I  liked the other one better.

[Don Stith]

Two different rifles.  One is old. That is my opinion
One lock has a bridled frizzen, one does not. Again, one is old although possibly a reconversion with maybe a Siler FRizzen.

[rich pierce]

Agee, that is not the original.  A bench copy.

[blienemann]

Check out this link - rifle in display case is a new rifle from Arkansas.  http://www.caywoodguns.com/crocket-rifle2.html

By the way, these guys followed the same path Jim Kibler is now with his southern rifle - even traced the carving and go back to detail it.  Had these at CLA show many years back.

Houston did the drawing, and I believe he made a new copy of the rifle, seems like both old and new were on the cover of Muzzle Blasts some years back with fine article.

Bob

[Dennis Glazener]

Two different rifles.  One is old. That is my opinion
One lock has a bridled frizzen, one does not. Again, one is old although possibly a reconversion with maybe a Siler FRizzen.

Has to be, so I was right when I told the docent there was no way that rifle was the original! Sure wish they would state that so people would know it wasn't a 214 year old rifle in that condition.
Dennis

[flinchrocket]

I realize that when you build a rifle for someone that you have to build what they want and the rifle looks
really nice, but wouldn't you want it to at least appear to be old? Especially if you planned to put it in a
museum and tell everyone it was 200 years old.

[PPatch]

Here is a pix I took of the Crockett rifle displayed at the TN/KY Longrifle Show three years ago.

dave