lines in the forarm

[projeeper]

getting close.
  i,m cutting the lines that run from the toe to the trigger guard done with no problem.i start marking the lines that run from the rear thimble to the nose guard 1/3 of the way up from the rr channel and it sort of doesn,t look right so i start marking lines 1/3 of the way down from barrel channel agin kinda doesn,t look right,so i look for answers at mr.kettenbergs site and mr.martins site and low and behold some come from the top down and some from the bottom up and some dosen,t have any at all.
  now i,m truely befuddled,as i,m not following any certin maker moll,rupp etc..
 is this the builders choice?where where these lines run on the majority of lehigh style rifles?
   thank you for any input    

[Acer Saccharum]

Jeeper, I think the biggest question for me is "How am I going to transition from moulding at the thimble"  The rest is easy from a design standpoint, whether it be a line of an actual moulding. The termination of the moulding at the muzzle is cake.

How easy or difficult is in part determined by the forestock shapes, what the transition is like between the forestock and the grip section. Often a scribed line and a scroll will do nicely, some detail which moves the eye from one section to another.

I have always had trouble with the rear pipe, and on this gun it's still too deep in the wood. This makes designing the moulding and carving more difficult. So try to get your parts inlet properly and the shape right before you think about decorating it.

[Acer Saccharum]

This pipe is better positioned, and the shaping of the forestock and transition is far more natural.

I would say that I use 1/3 of the height of the wood for moulding, and 2/3 for the wood above the line.

Does this help?

Tom

[George F.]

I made a tool for cutting the forestock moulding lines,. There's a picture of it in 'Recreating the American Longrifle" by Bill Buchele, on page 94. I'd take a picture and include it, but my computer has an idiot for an owner...sorry. The tool consists of a 3/8" steel rod about 6" long that rides in the ramrod groove. On the top of this rod there are 2 holes that are drilled and tapped. Then you have another piece of steel about 1/8" thick that is bent at a 45 degree angle The length is about 4"  and about 4" wide. After it is bent. cut it half so each half has the angle on it. You do it this way so both angles are the same. On each piece you cut a slot in the middle  leaving the end closed, and the direction of the slot goes from the angle to the end , and not the direction that goes from square side to square side. The slot has to big enough to accept the screws so that these two steel pieces could slide across the steel bar as an adjustment and locked down with the screws.  Next you have to make a cutter. The cutter is no more than a screw with a cutting edge filed on the tip, and is screwed into a threaded tube, so it can be adjusted up and down and locked down with a jam nut.This tube is silver soldered/ welded to the angle brackets edge that points down. Maybe some can copy the image in the book , if it's allowed, It would be very clear to what I'm describing...Geo.

[George F.]

Gee Tom, You certainly do great work.  ...Geo.

[Tom Currie]

George , I have a question for you. With the screw filed to provide a cutting edge, doesnt turning the screw ( adjusting ) change the how the cutting edge now engages the forestock ? Hope that makes sense.

[George F.]

Yes, it does but I use are 8-32 screw which when you turn the screw 1 turn it raises or lowers 1/32". With the cutting edge filed on both ends, a 1/2 turn is only 1/64". Also, when you slide the tool down the length of the ramrod groove, you elevate the back end of the tool slightly off the ramrod groove to get it started. You don't want it to grab and chip out wood, or miss track. the depth is set for the maximum depth and to keep both sides of the stock symmetrical. At least that's what I do.  ...Geo.

[Blacksmoke]

George & Projeeper-  Is this what you are looking for?   I've never used anything this fancy -just rat tail files ,sanding blocks and elbow grease.  Maybe I'll make one and see if it works??  Hugh

[flehto]

I've been using this tool for 30 yrs but just to cut a straight line !/32" + deep on swamped bbls and not for shaping the molding.  It works better on fore ends using straight bbls and for these, it could be used for shaping the molding.  The cutting screw has to be changed to the other end to complete the cut near the muzzle cap and entry pipe on opposite moldings.....Fred

[George F.]

Yea that is the one. But I only use it for the incised line,   ...Geo.

[projeeper]

Tom & Blacksmoke,
  pictures are worth so much more than words.everything is fitted i,m getting antsy to get this rifle done and when i hit a snag i hit the books then the masters of today websites to see how they do it.
 i live close to a thriving artist community and one of the crountrys best art schools so their is an abundance of art supply stores near me and they had a perfect tool to scribe lines,but thank you for sharing your tool design some of the people here are most ingenous and true artists.
  Tom you may see the design on the finished rifle come back to haunt you,my rendention anyway.
  thank you this has helped very much,  joe

[Jerry V Lape]

Projeeper, so what is the perfect tool you found to scribe lines?  While the guys have tried to help you along, there is nothing to say old dogs can't learn tricks from younger ones. 

[projeeper]

i bought it at a better upscale art supply store and of all things it,s called a line scriber.it,s a L  with a -- that moves up and down,in and out and uses a fine graphite lead you can find it in the archetechial or enginering section.
 this store also has templates for ovals from 1/4" to 2" marked at every 1/8 of the oval and templates of french swirls 3 in a pack from 1/8" to 2" i see these things saving me a lot of work measuring,i walked out the door for less than 25$   
 i,ll post their web on monday or tuesday in "over the back fence"
 Can someone tell me where Tom,s carving is too high,i only hope that one day i can screw up half that bad.

[Benedict]

When i google "line scriber" all I get is a device that music teachers to draw the lines for music on a blackboard.

Bruce

[Acer Saccharum]

I dunno if that gizmo would work for me. My lines sometimes follow the swamp. Adds subtle grace(in my mind only)  (but that's where it counts) 


How old would you be if you didn't keep track of your age?

I told my daughter I'd be about fourteen.

She said, well, if you aren't keeping track of your age, then how would you know you were fourteen?

 

I need to develop a new theory now and then, but as you can see, most theories can be shot full of holes.

[projeeper]

i found the tool i was describing to be nothing more than a cheap surface gage made from plastic with a pencil instead of a metal scribe

[Jim Filipski]

Gauges that run the RR grove are only accurate based on The accuracy of the RR grove. Just do it by hand based on the height of the upper forestock which should be right if you did the  barrel inletting & take down right.
That's what I do....ramrod channels are deceiving
Jim

[George F.]

I offer another point of view. The moulding on the ramrod channel should be referenced from the ramrod groove. Now the incised lines on the top edge of the forestock should be referenced from the top edge of the forestock. Now, which one are we talking about? ...Geo.