The word schimmel

[mountainman]

What the word schimmel mean?
I looked up the word online, the description did not seem to line up with the terminology in relating to longrifles.
I believe I need more education. Is there anybody out there, that knows what that word means, and if so, why they use it towards longrifles.

[Dennis Glazener]

Translation equates to "mildew", "grow moldy" which doesn't seem to relate to a cheap rifle but possibly they describe the cheap rifle after it sits in the barn for awhile
Dennis

[ghost]

I worked with a guy whose last name was Schimmel, he said his grandmother said it meant little gray pony.

[Bob Roller]

Translation equates to "mildew", "grow moldy" which doesn't seem to relate to a cheap rifle but possibly they describe the cheap rifle after it sits in the barn for awhile
Dennis

It may be Yiddish and the word in German translates as moldy.

Bob Roller

[Dave B]

It was a number of years ago that this discussion happened here. With regards to where the term first was used to describe the very plain Barn gun in the PA Lehigh valley. Chuck Dixion was thought to be the first to use it in this context. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8763.0

[okieboy]

 The first that I ever saw the term "schimmel" was an article purposing them in a Muzzle Blast mag in the late 1970s. This article supposed that they were once common, but hardly exist today because they were used up; that is, the evidence for them is that they don't exist.
 The article also posited that although these guns did not have butt-plates, nose-caps or even trigger guards to save money, they still had finely cut barrels and fast dependable locks.
 I don't remember who authored this article, but I thought it was goofy as a gun that couldn't afford a trigger guard more likely also had the cheapest barrel and lock that could be had.
 The terms "shimmel" and "poor boy" are used commonly today to mean a plain minimal gun. I seriously doubt that  either term was used by a gun maker before 1930 or so, and expect that a gun maker in the Tennessee mountains would have been seriously offended if someone called his work "poor boy".

[Mike Brooks]

I have no idea what they called them back in the day  but they are/were incredibly practical. I have built several and find they want for nothing except for glitz. They shoot as well as any other gun.

[Bob Roller]

I have no idea what they called them back in the day  but they are/were incredibly practical. I have built several and find they want for nothing except for glitz. They shoot as well as any other gun.

These guns are my upper level of gunmaking which I haven't done for about 9 years.
The stark simplicity appeals to my normal feeble minded ways.

Bob Roller

[Hungry Horse]

 A good friend bought a very nice Bedford, with all the bells, and whistles, some years ago. He loved it, and shot it a lot, resulting in the marginal quality lock wearing out. He loved the fit, and feel of the Bedford so much that he wanted to build himself a new  one. But, realized he didn't have the skills to execute the fine inlay, and carving, present on his worn out Bedford, he decided to make a Bedford shimmel. He made a Bedford style lock out of a Siler kit he extensively reworked, and bought a good quality barrel, for the project. The Bedford style shimmel is nearly as striking as the fancy one, because of its stark simplicity. His shimmel has no triggerguard. The trigger resembles the rear trigger on some early set triggers, in that it closely contures the wrist of the gun, and requires more of a lifting motion, than a rearward pull.
 Many guns in collections show signs of having been upgraded during the early twentieth century to Kentucky status from a more common shimmel, or barn gun.

  Hungry Horse

[grabenkater]

Translation equates to "mildew", "grow moldy" which doesn't seem to relate to a cheap rifle but possibly they describe the cheap rifle after it sits in the barn for awhile
Dennis

Schimmel in German means mold or a type of horse. I just recently discussed this with my wife who is a native speaker of German. I asked her why does she think it would be applied to a gun and she said it made no sense, unless it was the makers name.

[Boompa]

  My wife is also German and it makes no sense to her that a gun style would be Schimmel.  As state numerous times, it's mold, moldy or possibly a spotted horse. 

[mountainman]

Thanks for your replies.
I gather from your comments, that it would seem likely, that a fellow by the name of "Schimmel" would have built a number of plain rifles,.. and thus why they're called schimmels...

[omark]

my german born wife says it could mean a workhorse as cited in a song she knows of.     mark

[Dave B]

Don Getz posted this about Schimmel's
   
Re: schimmel butts
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2010, 04:57:36 AM »   Reply with quote
The word "Shimmel" came from a fellow by that name, an itenerant wood carver.   He supposedly did these very folksy
carvings in payment for room and board and assume it was somewhere here in Pa. where it all happened.   If you should
be lucky enough to have one of his carvings, you would soon find that it was worth a considerable amount of money.  I
think Chuck Dixon is the one who applied this name to a simple, plain gun, and assume he was thinking of this simple
wood carver when he did it.   I don't know of any gun builder by the name of Shimmel that he could be naming these
simple guns after........Don


 posted by Mad Monk from 2010

   
   
Re: schimmel butts
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2010, 06:38:33 PM »   Reply with quote
Quote from: smshea on February 02, 2010, 03:35:29 AM
Quote from: The other DWS on February 02, 2010, 02:07:44 AM
please pardon my relative ignorance,  but exactly what is a "schimmel" rifle,  its a new term to me?

 Some of the resident Pa. Dutch experts can help with the actual meaning of he word. My understanding is that it refers to mold or mildew and the Pa. dutch use the term to refer to anything "Not Pretty" or something you might not want to show off. Wayne? Jim Correll? Any Help?
 As used in reference to a gun , it means plain or not embellished. A schimmel in Pa. is a poor boy or a barn gun elsewhere. Most of the originals you see will be from Berks or Lehigh area. They are actually rather rare likely due to survival rates but they are very rare outside of those areas. They are usually limited to a trigger guard  of some sort as far as furniture goes. They are all about lines and architecture from a contemporary builders stand point.

About 15 years ago Chuck Dixon was going to do a book on the Schimmels and their relationship to the area around his shop.  I seem to recall that Tom Ames was going to help in this project.  Last time I mentioned it to Chuck he had given up on the idea of a book.

The term schimmel can be translated to a number of things.  One translation is that of, "man with greay or white hair".  But the common useage was "mildew".

Chuck used to talk about the Schimmels and often described them simply as barn guns.  They were simply tools rather than works of art as is seen in the highly decorated rifles.

Today we tend to over do a schimmel rifle.  I built mine in 1984, copying one that Chuck had hanging on the wall behind the counter.  I used a budget grade of curly maple when all those in his collected are simply straight grain wood.
He had one up there that was real cute.  Stocked in cherry where insects had been at the wood before it was made into a stock.  Several "worm holes" ran down the stock where in shaping the stock half of the hole had been cut away.

Chuck explains that someone would order a gun from a gunsmith.  The schimmel was the bottom price.  Add fancy wood and pay more.  Add some furniture and pay even more.

When you look at original longrifles from this area you have the bottom price schimmel as a work gun around the farm.  Then you had the really fancy ones that would draw a crowd at the local militia shoot.  The militia gatherings were sort of the gun clubs of their day.  Fancy rifles got a lot of attention.  Nobody would look twice at a schimmel and probably laugh at it.


It is unfortunate that Chuck decided not to publish a book on the schimmels that have gone through his hands.

Bill K.

[DutchGramps]

   In the Netherlands, a 'schimmel' is a white horse, well known as the ride for the Dutch version of Santa Claus, Sint Nicolaas, who rides over the roofs to drop presents for the children in the chimney.
But you also find 'schimmel' on forgotten sandwiches, and - more palatable - on the crust of fine Dutch and French cheese.
No connection I fear with American Long rifles 

[JCKelly]

Schimmel was the name of my 4X Great-Grampa who came over here in the employ of George III
Left his job without giving proper  notice & set up a distillery in Clearfield county, Pennsylvania.
Or so said Dad.

[Hungry Horse]

 The only one of these translations, in my opinion, that makes any sense, is "workhorse". Thats exactly what these barn guns were, a no frills workhorse.

   Hungry Horse

[Ky-Flinter]

I'm glad our old friend Don Getz was mentioned in this thread.  He built very nice looking barn guns.

-Ron

[bob in the woods]

I'm not sure if it applies to a "schimmel " , but I built myself a plain gun, without the normal buttplate , but carved the outline of the plate on the gun. I saw that used on some early European pieces . Are there any American guns with this ?

[Mike Brooks]

Not that I'm aware of. Maybe somebody else has and will report.

[Gaeckle]

About 15 years ago Chuck Dixon was going to do a book on the Schimmels and their relationship to the area around his shop.  I seem to recall that Tom Ames was going to help in this project.  Last time I mentioned it to Chuck he had given up on the idea of a book.


It is unfortunate that Chuck decided not to publish a book on the schimmels that have gone through his hands.

Bill K.

Bill,

The idea of a book on these sounds great and it appears as though you have both knowledge and access to these....ever think about putting Chuck's idea to use and do a book? I have no idea on how to start a book, or get one started from beginning to end, but the knowledge that books contain is so valuable.

[mountainman]

I would agree, that a book about schimmels would be in order

[ghost]

I would agree, that a book about schimmels would be in order

I Agree! Or a print with variations

[Mike Brooks]

I would agree, that a book about schimmels would be in order

Well, get on out there and do the leg work and print one!

[mountainman]

Way to go Mike 😊