Greetings from Seattle! Help the leftie black powder virgin get a rifle

[SanSwissGoingRetro]

Good Afternoon All.  

This is my first post but I have been reading through the forum since I discovered it a couple of weeks back.  Really like the sense of community and the lack of "1911 versus Glock" or "AK versus AR" type of threads.  I am an experienced modern weapon shooter and instructor.  This foray is all very new to me.  I anticipate doing this first and them also doing a sharps rifle at some point.  
I want to start off with a traditional American long rifle.  Flintlock, left handed, at least 50 caliber.  I am not particularly interested in a mass produced Cabela's gun.  I donk't need a heavily engraved rifle, but nice wood, good trigger, good accuracy...  I don't need an all hand made rifle, but I also don't want a Cabela's mass produced gun.  I'm thinking the sort of rifle that a basic middle class person would have back in the day.  I am hoping you will humor the perennial newbie by answering some questions.  I did look but can't find answers.
1) For general range use, and hunting deer size critters, would you go with a 50 cal., 54 cal or something else?  Would love to understand the trade space between the various choices  
2) Is buying used a viable choice?  
3) If I have 2 grand, give or take, what is the best option?
4) Any specific makes I should contact?  
5) Is there anyone in the Seattle area that can take a newbie under their wing and give me a running start?

Thanks in advance.

Damien

[nosrettap1958]

Welcome Damien!!!

You could contact the NMLRA regional representative who can steer you towards black powder clubs in your area.

http://nmlra.org/about-us-2/field-reps/

Then go from there.

[hatman]

I'm in your area.
I'm a member of a local gun club.
Although I'm pretty new to percussion and flintlocks, PM me if interested in trying some out before buying.

[Mike Brooks]

Good Afternoon All.  

This is my first post but I have been reading through the forum since I discovered it a couple of weeks back.  Really like the sense of community and the lack of "1911 versus Glock" or "AK versus AR" type of threads.  I am an experienced modern weapon shooter and instructor.  This foray is all very new to me.  I anticipate doing this first and them also doing a sharps rifle at some point.  
I want to start off with a traditional American long rifle.  Flintlock, left handed, at least 50 caliber.  I am not particularly interested in a mass produced Cabela's gun.  I donk't need a heavily engraved rifle, but nice wood, good trigger, good accuracy...  I don't need an all hand made rifle, but I also don't want a Cabela's mass produced gun.  I'm thinking the sort of rifle that a basic middle class person would have back in the day.  I am hoping you will humor the perennial newbie by answering some questions.  I did look but can't find answers.
1) For general range use, and hunting deer size critters, would you go with a 50 cal., 54 cal or something else?  Would love to understand the trade space between the various choices  
2) Is buying used a viable choice?  
3) If I have 2 grand, give or take, what is the best option?
4) Any specific makes I should contact?  
5) Is there anyone in the Seattle area that can take a newbie under their wing and give me a running start?

Thanks in advance.

Damien

1)If you are going to hunt mostly I'd go with a .54 if you are going to target shoot go with a .45, maybe a .50 is a good compromise.
2) yes
3) & 4) There are lots of guys on this forum that will build you a nice gun for 2K. Look at their work on the forum , find some work you like then contact them. Be aware that most good builders are backed up a year or more.
5) beats me.....

[Marcruger]

You may also want to contact Tip Curtis.  My friend has two Tip Curtis rifle, with Colerain barrels, and they certainly shoot accurately. 

He usually has rifles already built up and ready for delivery.  Not personal, not fancy, but nicely done and nice lines.  Well assembled.  I think they are around $1400.00.

The million dollar question is whether he does left handed rifles. 

In any event, I think one of those could serve you well indefinitely. 

If you want a certain style, or a high level of ornamentation, there are some great (even incredible) makers on here that can construct your personal rifle "art".  Be prepared to spend two, three, or four times the rifle I mentioned above, and wait for a year or more (sometimes much more). 

Another option is to post a "WTB" or "Seeking" message in the classifieds here.  A second hand rifle will save you a lot of money if it has been treated well. 

Best wishes,   Marc

[Boompa]

  If you're patient and not overly particular as to a certain style or "school" of rifle you can likely find a good used gun for less than $2k.  Many on this site hobby builders that build for the fun of it and not trying to make a living from their efforts. Personally, I have about as much fun tinkering and building guns as I do shooting them. Many times I've sold a gun to fund the next project,( mine are all RH guns though). Be cautious as quality will vary but as long as you're able to examine the rifle with the option to return it you should be okay. It will be best to have an experienced ML user examine the gun with you. The lefty requirement makes it little harder to locate a gun but it should be do-able.

[moleeyes36]

Damien,

Jackie Brown has a rifle in the classified area now http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=40194.0 that you might want to look at.  Jackie builds in the price range you're talking about and though this rifle isn't what you're looking for it does give you an idea of what's available as a new rifle in the neighborhood of $1,000 or so.  I imagine Jackie can make you something that would satisfy your needs, including left handed version, if you contact him and talk it over with him. 

I have no connection with Jackie Brown other than having owned one of his smoothbores, with which I killed a lot of game, for a number of years.  He just came to mind as someone who could probably fix you up without a long delivery time.  As Mike Brooks said, there are lots of guys on the forum who can build you a nice gun for 2K.

Mole Eyes

[WadePatton]

Being lefty narrows your options somewhat as there are far fewer locks made for that side of the gun.  The style of the lock "controls" the styling of the gun.

If you're in a rush, I'd agree to call Tip Curtis and see if he has anything LH.  If you're lucky he'll have an "in the white" gun that is ready to shoot, but lacks any finish on the wood or metal.  You get to pull it apart, do the finish work, and reassemble.  OR not.  Just depends on how "dirty" you want to get.  

Buying a "random" second-hand ALR, I'd be real careful about buying  "mishmash" of various parts that don't really belong on the same gun from a historical perspective.  

Those are out there, and I'm sure that many of them make smoke, poke holes, and take game just fine, but they set a bad example for the sort of thing we do here.  At your price point, this may be less of an issue.

There are no magic calibers in round ball shooting.  Bigger carries further and requires more powder, smaller won't carry as far but takes less powder and lead.  FIRST thing is to check your state regs, sometime they aren't logical.  54 has been super for me and Southern whitetails, where 180# and up is a big one.  45/50 are the middle of the road cals.  40 is light for deer (and prohibited in some states) but works for marksmen taking short-range shots.  40 and below are generally reserved for targets and small game.

Once you develop the most accurate hunting load, you can always try to find a lower-powered "target/plinking" load, same as any gun in my eye (handloader much longer that longrifler).  That's a one-gun compromise.  It's really best to work up the most accurate/powerful load for each gun and use the one with the best caliber match for the chore of the day.

I strongly suggest learning to load as Darryl and many others do: thick-wet, no-wipe loading.  Don't fool around with flimsy patching.  All that info is on here DOZENS of times. It's not the only way, but is worth giving a try.  

If buying used, get a cheap borescope and/or run a tight patch/jag down it.  You know about bores.

Great you've already got a connection out there.  Get crackin!

PS, if the gun style you choose allows it, I suggest starting with a flintlock (and priming with main powder because it simplifies things).  If you later decide you'd rather have percussion-then it's perfectly historically correct to convert that lock/gun to percussion.  cheers!

PPS, if your big-game hunting is in heavy cover and ranges are short to moderate, you might consider a smoothie.  But then I'd up the caliber to 62 or so, for better performance if used with shot.

[Mike Brooks]

In addition....I'm right handed and have no problems what so ever shooting left handed guns. I can't tell the difference. Don't write off a good right handed gun, it will give you alot more options when it comes to finding a nice gun.

[T*O*F]

If you're in a rush, I'd agree to call Tip Curtis

Friendship starts on Jun 10th.  Those that set up there are currently loading and preparing.  I wouldn't count on Tip for 3 weeks or so.  He hauls a box truck full of stuff and is probably super busy now packing.

[WadePatton]

If you're in a rush, I'd agree to call Tip Curtis

Friendship starts on Jun 10th.  Those that set up there are currently loading and preparing.  I wouldn't count on Tip for 3 weeks or so.  He hauls a box truck full of stuff and is probably super busy now packing.

Good catch.  Yes and Tip is not an "online" sort of guy.  You get him on landline or you don't.   Easy to forget how that used to be the way it was for everybody, and some folks ne'er changed. 

[Joe S.]

Or you could just jump into the deep end and give a go at building your own.While not knowing your situation and skill set its an option. There's something to be said for building one of these things with your own two hands,still working on my first and wish I'd taken the challenge years ago.You have the best of the best here to help you along and are always willing to share their knowledge. On the other side if I had one of these fine fellows build me one I'd be throwing lead down field by now.Good luck!

[percman48]

Damien:  I heard from one of our guild members (Washington Historical Gunmakers Guild) that you are interested.  I am in Bellevue.  Don't consider myself an expert by any means but could give you a show and tell from my vantage point.  We're close.  Please respond to percman48@comcast.net to connect locally. 

[PPatch]

1) For general range use, and hunting deer size critters, would you go with a 50 cal., 54 cal or something else?  Would love to understand the trade space between the various choices  
2) Is buying used a viable choice?  
3) If I have 2 grand, give or take, what is the best option?
4) Any specific makes I should contact?  
5) Is there anyone in the Seattle area that can take a newbie under their wing and give me a running start?

One: In my opinion either caliber will work fine on deer. If you are hunting closer in (out to 85 yards) go with the 50, further out the 54. With a .50 you can shoot fffg or ffg powder, ffg is recommended for higher calibers. My .50 is dead on at 85 yards shooting 85gr of fffg with a .495 round ball and a .015 pillow ticking patch. At 100 it opens up a little but is still decent and it is probably me causing the difference... Whatever caliber you end up with you will have to work up a load that your particular rifle likes, that is part of the fun in black powder shooting. There is a technique to working up a load and I'm sure it has been discussed several times on ALR.

Two/three: Yes, but you will have to know what to look for so you'll want an experienced black powder shooter to help you make a choice, I would hate to see you get a lemon right off the bat. Left-handed guns are somewhat harder to find but they are out there.

Four: You've had some good answers already. Around 2K should get you a fine shooter, and a good looking one too.

Five: Again, I see two responses to your question in the thread already, looks like you're hooked up.

Six: Last but hardly least - Welcome To the Forum! You're in the right place. ;o)

dave

PS: have all the fun you can with that new firearm.

[Don Steele]

Welcome to our little world Damien.
I'm also left-handed. My personal experience has convinced me to stay with rifles built for left-handed shooters.
Some folks can shoot either, or both. I have not had success trying to do that. You might. Perhaps you should immerse yourself in this kind of shooting for a while before making a selection. There are  LOT of different schools out there to choose from and until you have more exposure, you don't even know what you don't know yet.
50 caliber is a great place to start. If I were buying a rifle for hunting N. American big game however, I'd choose a 54.
If I were buying one for small game and targets...40 caliber.
Buying used is a great choice if you find some local folks with rifles for sale that interest you. Buying used when you can't see the rifle up close, handle it for "fit", and shoot it is a more dicey proposition. Especially so for a total beginner.
As already pointed out, Tip Curtis is an excellent place to start your search. I was in his shop in April. At that time he had some left-handed rifles on his rack. Tip doesn't put what most people would consider a "Final finish" on his assembled rifles. They are absolutely ready to go shoot, but don't have the nice final metal and wood finish you might get from another builder. All that said, set some time aside to chat, and give him a call.
On top of all the great suggestions already made in the previous responses to your post...the best thing I can add is to reiterate the recommendation that you make contact with the muzzleloading community closest to you and begin the process by learning about the wide variety of options available...BEFORE you try to pick one rifle.
Good Luck...enjoy the journey. 
 

[WadePatton]

In addition....I'm right handed and have no problems what so ever shooting left handed guns. I can't tell the difference. Don't write off a good right handed gun, it will give you alot more options when it comes to finding a nice gun.

I could probably train my left eye quicker than I could my left trigger finger.  I don't get the switch-hitting.  Ambi-aim-dextrous?

as a shooting instructor I'm sure the OP has corrected some cross-sighting/eye-dominance issues.

[Mike Brooks]

In addition....I'm right handed and have no problems what so ever shooting left handed guns. I can't tell the difference. Don't write off a good right handed gun, it will give you alot more options when it comes to finding a nice gun.

I could probably train my left eye quicker than I could my left trigger finger.  I don't get the switch-hitting.  Ambi-aim-dextrous?

as a shooting instructor I'm sure the OP has corrected some cross-sighting/eye-dominance issues.

No, if your left handed and shooting a right handed gun just hold it left handed and shoot.

[SanSwissGoingRetro]

I am cross dominant. Right handed but my right eye doesn't work very well... 

I will reach out to all those to whom I have been referred and will look up the local talent to learn more.  Thanks very much for the welcome and the information.  Seems like what I want is a full stocked, iron mounted, 54 cal, left handed flintlock with nice wood.  Now I need to learn a bunch, figure out LOP, accoutrements and either luck into a nice rifle or get one ordered up...

Damien

[Southernstyle]

Damien, I sent you a couple of emails from this site, check your email.