Author Topic: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks  (Read 878 times)

Offline Bob McBride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Short Mountain, TN
    • Black Powder TV
National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« on: September 30, 2019, 11:04:23 PM »
I found this short video from the National Firearms Museum on Napoleon Bonaparte’s beautiful SxS flintlock shotgun:




It seems to me if one is going to build a SxS flintlock they might want to study this piece.


(I hope this is the appropriate forum for this. The forum header says ‘for the study and collecting...’. Seems like a gun worth studying.)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 11:17:32 PM by Bob McBride »
-Bob

Black Powder TV
www.youtube.com/c/blackpowdertv

PB-TN

Offline Bob McBride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Short Mountain, TN
    • Black Powder TV
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2019, 11:15:57 PM »
The tail engraving on the King James Fowler lock is the coolest thing.



-Bob

Black Powder TV
www.youtube.com/c/blackpowdertv

PB-TN

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4757
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2019, 12:13:08 AM »
Hi,
Does anyone else out there think the King James (remember he is 17th century) fowler is a fake or restock?

dave
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 12:16:32 AM by smart dog »
"Flick Lives!"

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2647
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2019, 12:13:39 AM »
The tail engraving on the King James Fowler lock is the coolest thing.




When do you think that particular stocking took place?

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2647
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2019, 12:14:43 AM »
Ha! Dave, I was right on your heels! It has characteristics of late 18th century English stocking IMO

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4757
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2019, 12:21:48 AM »
Hi James,
The style of the butt stock may be about right for the late 17th century but I believe it has been reworked into a half stock during the late 18th century at the earliest.  How many 17th century British guns have you seen that have barrel ribs, barrel keys, and horn nose caps?  Also James, notice that the barrel key heads are on the wrong side for a British gun.  This gun has been horribly diddled with.

dave
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 12:25:21 AM by smart dog »
"Flick Lives!"

Offline Bob McBride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2029
  • Short Mountain, TN
    • Black Powder TV
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2019, 12:29:09 AM »
Very interesting barrel on this one....



-Bob

Black Powder TV
www.youtube.com/c/blackpowdertv

PB-TN

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2647
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2019, 12:43:47 AM »
I think the buttplate and trigger guard are dictating the butt configuration we are seeing in two dimensions and I question if we will see the small nuances of planes and dips that are characteristic of the original time frame if we held it in hand. The lock panels and belly around the TG also lead me to believe it was restocked in that later time frame. You are also certainly right about the other late as well as questionable additions.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 01:07:05 AM by James Rogers »

WESTbury

  • Guest
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2019, 02:54:36 AM »
Hi James,
The style of the butt stock may be about right for the late 17th century but I believe it has been reworked into a half stock during the late 18th century at the earliest.  How many 17th century British guns have you seen that have barrel ribs, barrel keys, and horn nose caps?  Also James, notice that the barrel key heads are on the wrong side for a British gun.  This gun has been horribly diddled with.

dave

In my opinion, that buttstock with the handrail looks to be post 1700 as does the lock. James gave up the throne in 1688. When was this thing cobbled together?

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4757
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2019, 03:51:24 AM »
Hi,
The James II fowler reminds me of one of the guns in the Smithsonian.  The famous "Newtown" matchlock purported to be the oldest gun made in America is a total fake.  The lock is a modern fabrication from a standard late 17th century ordnance match lock.  Anyway, as Richard Colton said to me, the Smithsonian no longer has any firearm experts owing to budget cuts. 

dave
"Flick Lives!"

WESTbury

  • Guest
Re: National Firearms Museum Flintlocks
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2019, 04:30:44 AM »
I am quite sure that there are other anomalies at the NRA Museum.

One I know for a fact, as this is the area of my alleged expertise, is the 1818 dated Springfield Model 1816 they have in Case Number 7. It has a repro battery(frizzen) spring and in the top view of the barrel at the breech you can see an approx 1/2 dia circle where the percussion nipple was removed and the resulting hole was welded during the reconversion. Also during the recon job, part of the alpha-numeric serial number was ground away.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 04:34:22 AM by WESTbury »