Author Topic: Brown Bess to Committee of Safety Musket (Read 11877 times)

grabenkater · « **on:** June 20, 2016, 01:30:06 PM »

I'm in the beginning stages of slimming down the stock on a Japanese Bess I picked up in a trade. I have given thought to making this a CoS musket. Is this something that can e done or should I go with completing it as a Bess?

smart dog · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2016, 03:18:42 PM »

Hi,
You could do either. However, if you opted for a militia or CoS musket, you might want to restock it. I have a Japanese Bess as well that I am going to turn into an upgraded 1757 marine and militia musket. However, I will restock it. The Japanese stock is so straight that I cannot shoot the gun and the earlier model Besses had a bit more drop. I intend to get rid of the fake looking stamped engraving on the lock plate. I will engrave new markings on mine. I also will replace the funky trigger guard with a correct one. The Japanese Bess lock needs work. It looks like they slapped the lock together with parts right out of the molds. They are well made parts but no hand fitting or polishing was done. With work it will perform very well.

dave

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2016, 05:28:20 PM »

I vote for restock too. Curly maple.

smart dog · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2016, 07:06:02 PM »

Hi Mike,
I have a commission for a militia or CoS musket that might have been carried by a soldier from New Jersey. I am going to use curly maple for the stock. It should look really nice. The client has a mix of Pedersoli and other cast parts so it will have a bit of mix and match.

dave

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2016, 07:55:51 PM »

Dave you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the internals on Japanese locks. I have a lock from a 1763 Charleville that has internal parts that are totally untouched by file or stone. And if that weren't enough it has springs strong enough to support a Kenworth. The springs are so strong the lock can't be cocked outside of a gun. I love the lock, and the castings are nice quality, but there is going to be a lot of cleaning up, and tuning, before it gets into a gun.

Hungry horse

grabenkater · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2016, 10:05:05 PM »

Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen, but restocking it entirely is out of the question. I have a Hawkun' kit from ToW that needs attention and this was just a sideline project to keep myself even busier.

Telgan · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2016, 12:01:34 AM »

I have often wondered about the pre-carve that Wayne Dunlap does for Pedersoli Bess parts. It has a more shooter friendly configuration - with a better drop profile. Seems it would be a good option for a re-stock in curly maple if you did not want to stick build. Anyone ever have a look at one of these?

Bill of the 45th · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2016, 02:08:13 AM »

Hey, why, don't you save up some green, and send it to Smartdog, and let him do his magic!

satwel · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2016, 03:13:13 AM »

Quote from: TELGAN on June 21, 2016, 12:01:34 AM

I have often wondered about the pre-carve that Wayne Dunlap does for Pedersoli Bess parts. It has a more shooter friendly configuration - with a better drop profile. Seems it would be a good option for a re-stock in curly maple if you did not want to stick build. Anyone ever have a look at one of these?

I too have a Japanese Bess that needs restocking. I called Wayne at Dunlap and asked him if the Miroku parts would fit his Italian Bess stock. He said no, so I bought a walnut blank.

I hope this is not too far off topic, but I agree with previous posts about the lock. None of the parts are polished, they have a fine texture to them. The lock on mine sparks nicely, but the hammer has some slop on the tumbler shaft. Can the square hole in the hammer be tightened by peening the edges on the inside of the hammer? If not, is it possible to install a shim?

Thank you

smart dog · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2016, 03:29:14 AM »

Hi Satwell,
Take a small cold chisel and score the metal on each side of the square hole on the inside of the flint cock. Position the chisel just a hair back from the edges of the hole. The chisel will push metal into the hole.

dave

satwel · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2016, 03:41:33 AM »

Dave,
Thank you for the suggestion. That is exactly what I was going to try. I'm glad I asked though. I was going to use a drift punch. Your idea of a cold chisel makes way more sense.

Your reply is much appreciated.
Satwel

Ed Wenger · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2016, 03:45:12 AM »

Just a suggestion that might be helpful for a restock, if you didn't feel like going completely from a blank. Dave Keck has a pretty good Bess pattern that he could shape for you, could even inlet the barrel....

Ed

satwel · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2016, 04:51:46 AM »

Ed,
I purchased a J P Beck pre-carve and barrel combo from Dave Keck about five years ago. It was first rate. I hadn't thought of asking him about his Bess stock. On his web site, the Bess appears to be more of an early Long Land pattern, but I should ask him if it is appropriate for a Short Land pattern as well. May be a better option than starting from a blank. I could save the blank for another project. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give him a call.

Satwel

Ed Wenger · « **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2016, 03:42:03 AM »

I did a Rappahannock Forge musket from Dave's pattern. When the 2nd Continental Congress wrote "specifications" for muskets to be supplied to the Continental Army, they were very vague, to say the least. About the only guideline utilized, were that the arms be "in the manner of" or "in like appearance to", the British muskets. It gives you a lot of lee way, and there were a lot of variations.

Ed

grabenkater · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2016, 03:12:58 PM »

I think I am going to work with what I have and see what I can come up with these parts.

smart dog · « **Reply #15 on:** June 22, 2016, 05:07:17 PM »

Hi Grabenkater,
If you wanted to give the gun a CoS look using the existing stock, here is what I would do:
1. Thin the stock overall where thinning won't compromise the inlets. Make sure the forearm is thin with very little wood showing on the sides of the barrel if viewed from on top of the barrel.
2. Thin the barrel tang apron so that it is much lower relief and has a slight concave contour.
3. Replace the trigger guard with another Bess guard that has a properly round bow.
4. File off all of the engraving on the lock, and fit and polish the internals.
5. Make sure all parts are inlet flush with the surface of the wood and not sitting below the surface of the wood.
6. Make a rounded side plate similar to long land pattern Besses to replace the existing one .
7. Scrape all finish off and finish the wood with files and scrapers.
8. Darken the wood with some sort of walnut stain and finish with an oil-varnish.

dave

grabenkater · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2016, 06:06:53 PM »

Thank you very much, Dave!

I think this is the route I am going to take. I have started the thinning process on the forearm and the tang molding. The forearm on this stock was extremely thick, along with the molding around the lock and tang. I spent a couple hours removing the plastic finish and thinning the wood.

smart dog · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2016, 07:37:49 PM »

Hi Grabenkater,
You are very welcome. One more thing to consider as well. On many if not most American CoS muskets that used the Bess wrist escutcheon, the plate was screwed in from the top with the screw head countersunk and showing. You might be able to do that by plugging the old hole with a wooden dowel glued in place. Then use shorter wood screws for the guard and wrist plate. Also, consider trimming the lock moldings down to about 3/16"-1/8" wide at most. Good luck.

dave

grabenkater · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2016, 07:53:36 PM »

Excellent suggestion, Dave! I can easily plug the hole with a dowel and do as you suggest.

smart dog · « **Reply #19 on:** June 23, 2016, 12:52:40 AM »

Hi,
I thought that you might like to see these photos (I apologize if you saw the thread already) of a Pedersoli Brown Bess that I worked over to make more historically correct as a Bess. It demonstrates a few of the things I mentioned in my previous posts. The Miroku Bess has so much more extra wood and the top of the barrel channel is way too thick and flat topped. That needs to be feathered into the barrel. Anyway, these photos might help. Again good luck and please post some before and after photos. I for one would love to see them.

dave

grabenkater · « **Reply #20 on:** June 23, 2016, 03:03:20 PM »

Dave, I have tapered and thinned the forearm down to around 1/32" where it meets the barrel. I have been trying to match it up with the photos in the book by Goldstein and Mowbray.

Do you know what type of wood the Japanese used on these?

Your photos will be a great visual reference, thank you.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2016, 03:05:59 PM »

Here's how I figure a bess ought to be. Not Jap or Eye-talion, might be a rifle shopper....can't remember. Lots of options to make it look a little more honest. I'd still restock a jap bess if it were up to me, but it's not.