Removing breech plug

[mustanggt]

I'm ready to start on my Chambers York rifle and can't get the breech plug to loosen up. I feel kinda dumb because I know how to run a couple of wrenches. I don't want to screw this up rightbout of the gate.

[Joe S.]

Don't feel like it's you, had the same problem,plug was way to tight.I ended up taking it to somebody who had the right tools to take it out without buggering it up.Aluminum vice inserts,plug wrench and piece of pipe for some leverage.Some of these things are way to tight Imho but I'm no expert.I thought a large cresent wrench and a decent vise with a couple pieces of scrap brass should have done the trick,wrong.I couldn't get it apart without worry of buggering it up.Folks skimping on the antiseize aren't helping either.If you can take it to someone with the tools to do it if you don't and then check the threads,seat ect. to make sure it's all good.

[thimble rig]

Go to rice barrel company sight they have a breech plug wrench and a set of pads for youre vice.I got both and they make a big difference getting the pugs out.That way you don't screw things up.

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi Mustanggt,

First, welcome to ALR.  The Chambers York is a nice parts set.  Should be fun and will make up into a nice rifle.

A search here on ALR for "remove breechplug" will return many previous threads on the topic.  Here's how I do it.

Is your barrel straight or swamped?  I'm guessing swamped since it's in a Chambers York.  Whether the barrel is straight or swamped you should use something to protect the surface of the barrel when you clamp it in your vice.  I use thick sheet brass shims.  For swamped barrels your shims need to match the barrel taper so the vice jaws contact the barrel evenly all the way across.  I stack progressively shorter lengths of brass strips to make tapered shims.  Superglue between the shims to hold them together.  (there are many techniques and different tools for this.  See above search)

You need a good sized, solidly mounted vise.  Jaws should be about 4" wide.  Clamp the barrel with the breech plug lug horizontal and the bottom of the lug facing you, so you are pushing down to loosen the plug.  Leave about 5/8 to 3/4" of the breech end of the barrel sticking out past the jaws, so you don't compress the barrel threads on the plug threads.  Tighten vise securely.  There are many opinions and techniques on this step.  See above search.

Get a big adjustable wrench (there are many opinions and different tools for this.  See above search) and a piece of pipe that will slide over the wrench handle.  Use a brass shim bent in a U shape to protect the plug.  Mount the wrench but make sure the wrench jaws stop a little short of the top of the plug.  Check your set up one last time to make darn sure you are set up to loosen, not tighten the plug.  (Don’t ask me why that’s part of my routine.)  Push down on the pipe.  If the plug does not come loose, remove the pipe and get a big hammer (you are set to loosen, right?)   Give the wrench handle a mighty blow.

If it’s still stuck, do a search on “breech plug stuck” for more ideas.  Good luck and keep us posted on your build.

-Ron

[Mark Elliott]

The barrel must be held very firmly in the vise jaws without marring it.   I use lead jaw liner sheets that I buy from Brownells.   I have found them to work the best for holding barrels.  I stick the breech about 1/2" out of the vise so that I am not compressing it around the breech plug.  After that,  I have a 12" adjustable wrench that I use on the breech plug.   I have ground the wrench jaws a little tapered to better fit the tapered recoil lug of the breech plug.   I also have a 2' long wrench I forged from 1/2' square stock.    You probably can't do that, but you can grind an adjustable wrench to fit.    You will have to put your weight behind the wrench.   That is why the barrel must be tight in a pretty heavy vise.    I use a 4.5" bench vise, but it is bolted to a heavy bench bolted to the wall.   It isn't going anywhere.   You do need to be careful not to chew up the tang.   Because of that, I put the wrench on the bottom of the recoil lug/breech plug.   Some people use jaw liners in the wrench.   I don't.    I just try to match the jaws as close as possible to the recoil lug.   I position the barrel in the vise so that the wrench handle is a little pasts top dead center toward me.   Then I just pull back and down on the wrench using my weight.

I don't think much of using a hammer to break the plug loose.   My weight (350lbs) has always been enough to break the plug loose.   You might use an extension on the wrench, but I don't like the idea of pounding on it.   Mainly,  because it is hard to make sure you are only applying force tangentially to the plug threads.   

I have taken out and replaced a lot of breech plugs, so I know my approach works.   

[Frank]

Get the proper tools. Best tools from Rice Barrel Company.

Here you go.

http://ricebarrels.com/other%20products.html

[JCKelly]

Letting some Kroil soak in for a few days might help get it started

[mustanggt]

Thanks men. I'll try some Kroil. It's worked for me on other things. I'll also look at the tools from Rice. I'm frustrated that this has stopped me cold now, after six months have gone by, before I could get to it. I'm sure in the end it will be worth it.

[galudwig]

Go to rice barrel company sight they have a breech plug wrench and a set of pads for youre vice.I got both and they make a big difference getting the pugs out.That way you don't screw things up.

I second that recommendation.  I have both tools and they are worth their weight in gold.  I used them about two weeks ago to remove a plug in a barrel after installing a touch hole liner. Easiest removal I ever did.  Also, they make lining up your witness marks so much easier because the removal tool gives you finer control over the wrenching.

[Dennis Glazener]

Thanks men. I'll try some Kroil. It's worked for me on other things. I'll also look at the tools from Rice. I'm frustrated that this has stopped me cold now, after six months have gone by, before I could get to it. I'm sure in the end it will be worth it.

I am not sure how tight you were expecting it to be but breechplugs can be tight, verrrrry tight! You need to make sure that however way you are holding the barrel (vise, blocks etc) that you are not directly on the barrel threads. Move the breech away from the vise/clamp at leasy 3/4" from the end of the barrel. This keeps the clamping pressure from tightening the threads around the breech plug.

Make sure you have it secured tight and if the wrench you are using i.e. pipe-wrench etc has a short handle (anything less than a foot long) I would find a pipe to stick on it to make a longer (helper) handle. That should break it loose. I also have been known to whack my wrench handle with a large hammer, the biggest I could find. JUST MAKE SURE THE BARREL DOESN'T TURN IN THE VISE/CLAMP AND THAT THE WRENCH DOESN'T SLIP AND RUIN THE BREECH PLUG/TANG.
Dennis

[mustanggt]

I didn't have the breach plug in the vise itself. It was several inches away. I had padded vice blocks in the vice but it would end up slipping. I then went with some hardwood blocks. I also used a wrench on the barrel to counter act the forced of the wrench on the plug. I stopped then because it wouldn't budge. I have some marks on the breech and barrel that need to by filed out later. That's when I decided to stop and ask here what to do.

[David Rase]

Let me interject some words of encouragement.  Below is a photo of the last breech plug I removed.  Now that is what I call tight. 
Hopefully yours does not end up being as tight as this one was.
David

[mustanggt]

I was watching both of Turpin's videos and in one he turned the barrel around and used the muzzle to square that breech end mortise. I assume it's a viable method if he introduced it in a video? My barrel is swamped and the muzzle is of course smaller than the breach. It makes sense if the barrel is the same size. Just wondering.

[rsells]

I purchased Jason's plug wrench and it works great.  I do loosen the fit of the plug to the barrel before reinstallation so the customer can remove it with run of the mill tools if need be down the road.
                                                                                                                                           Roger Sells

[Nordnecker]

It sounds to me like you're trying to hold the breach plug in the vise and unscrew the barrel from it. 

[Bob Roller]

I was watching both of Turpin's videos and in one he turned the barrel around and used the muzzle to square that breech end mortise. I assume it's a viable method if he introduced it in a video? My barrel is swamped and the muzzle is of course smaller than the breach. It makes sense if the barrel is the same size. Just wondering.

In new barrels these ultra tight plugs make no sense to me. IF the plug can move backwards as easy as a ball or bullet moves forward then something is really wrong. Having to use special tools for a simple task? Why?

Bob Roller

[Joe S.]

Exactly right Bob,why?I don't get it.If the makers where worried about pressure causing it to fail wouldn't the vent liner be even more of a liability?

[mustanggt]

It sounds to me like you're trying to hold the breach plug in the vise and unscrew the barrel from it.  

No. Barrel in padded vice.

In new barrels these ultra tight plugs make no sense to me. IF the plug can move backwards as easy as a ball or bullet moves forward then something is really wrong. Having to use special tools for a simple task? Why?

Bob Roller

Exactly right Bob,why?I don't get it.If the makers where worried about pressure causing it to fail wouldn't the vent liner be even more of a liability?

I didn't expect gorilla tight. After all it needs to be removed in order to inlet it properly. Just snug would have been fine. This is Buckeye barrels. They are conected with Jim Chambers aren't they? I'm at a loss as to the need to make it that tight.

[Mark Elliott]

It sounds to me like you're trying to hold the breach plug in the vise and unscrew the barrel from it.  

No. Barrel in padded vice.

In new barrels these ultra tight plugs make no sense to me. IF the plug can move backwards as easy as a ball or bullet moves forward then something is really wrong. Having to use special tools for a simple task? Why?

Bob Roller

Exactly right Bob,why?I don't get it.If the makers where worried about pressure causing it to fail wouldn't the vent liner be even more of a liability?

I didn't expect gorilla tight. After all it needs to be removed in order to inlet it properly. Just snug would have been fine. This is Buckeye barrels. They are conected with Jim Chambers aren't they? I'm at a loss as to the need to make it that tight.

You don't need to remove the breech plug to inlet the barrel.   I don't.   I only remove the breech plug in order to file off the touch hole liner on the inside of the barrel.   That is,  assuming, the breech plug was fit properly to begin with.

[mustanggt]

Mark or anyone else, can you give your opinion/ experience that Buckeye barrels breech plugs are right on or does it really need to be taken out? If not then I can sully forth and finally get going on this project.

[Mark Elliott]

I am assuming you have a Rice barrel and they are as good as it gets.   I only think you need to remove the breech plug to install the liner.   Sometimes,  I do that before I inlet the barrel, and sometimes, I do it after.    I usually get it done before I inlet the lock as I have to mark the location of the touch hole to install the lock.   If I have to center punch the hole location,  I might as well put the liner in.  It usually is a less than an hour operation including pulling the breech plug. 

[Scota4570]

Another option for holding the barrel is fitted maple blocks dusted with rosin.  A bench vice may not have the strength to go tight enough.  You may strip the screw or snap the jaws.  A real barrel vice may be needed.  

[sqrldog]

I have a subtantial fixed vise and a long adjustable wrench. I use brass  shims to prevent damage and have no touble getting a Rice barrel breech plug in or out. I like the idea of a well fit sealed tight plug when I shoot a heavy charge in a big bore rifle or for that matter in a small bore rifle.  Just don't tighten the vise on the threaded breech area. Tim

[thimble rig]

I always like to remove the breech plug and check to make sure the breech plug is fitted right.Then finish inletting the barrel without the plug.Then do the lock plate.Then if you have to move the barrel back to get the touchhole  lined up with the pan you don't have to worry about the the tang.Some times those kits aren't exactly right.When it comes to the touch hole placement.This is just my opinion I would order what I needed from rice to get youre barrel out.You could start by taking the lock apart and polishing the plate.and all the brass why you wait.Probably would get the stuff you need by the end of the week.

[Dennis Glazener]

I only think you need to remove the breech plug to install the liner.  

I don't even remove the breech plug to install a liner. I measure where the tang threads are going to fall then measure where I want the vent hole to be and then install the liner. I don't feel the necessity to pull the breech plug to install a liner. As soon as the plug is installed I run a loose patch in (usually on a brush) to remove any loose chips that may have fallen in the barrel. Then a tight one (on a jag) to make sure there are no burrs that a patch will snag on. Never had one yet and if I did THEN I could pull the breech plug if necessary. I guess I am kind of lazy and don't want to do any work that I don't feel necessary.

The only time I remove a Rice breech plug is to forge out the tang if its to go on a southern mountain rifle. I have removed enough Rice installed breech plugs to know that the breech plug fit will be perfect and nothing for me to do in that regard.

Dennis