Author Topic: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!  (Read 17833 times)

Offline conquerordie

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My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« on: July 06, 2016, 02:00:32 AM »
Evening everyone,

About a year ago I posted my first rifle from a plank, a short barreled jeager ca. 1710.  Now that I have a few more builds from planks under my belt, I noticed that I had left WAY too much wood EVERYWHERE!  So I set off to remove everything I could.  Heres what it looks like now:
[




I removed so much wood that I had to completely recarve the stock.  My carving still needs improving, but its better than it was. I removed a 1/4" of wood from each side the butt by reshaping the buttplate some.  I halved the lockplate panels from what they were, removed excess from the forearm, and made the wrist smaller.  It feels like a totally different rifle.  Thoughts, critiques, comments are all welcomed.  Let me know what I can improve.  I dont think I'll tackle this rifle for a third time with improvements, but I will apply them to my next build.  Thanks again,
Greg
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 06:35:21 PM by Tim Crosby »

Offline webradbury

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2016, 02:25:30 AM »
Did you have to apply for a SBR tax stamp before building that? ;) Just kidding! Nice little gun!
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Offline Daryl

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2016, 04:34:11 AM »
Coming along - much better overall, but isn't it just a little too robust still?
Daryl

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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2016, 12:22:24 PM »
You need to  handle more originals, that will really speed you along. Nice berries... ;)
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Offline David R. Pennington

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2016, 02:08:06 PM »
I had to go back over my first build awhile back. Just couldn't stand it any more. Mine was way to thick along the barrel.
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Offline bama

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2016, 04:06:25 PM »
If it functions and you are happy with it then that's all that matters. My first rifle from a plank looked OK and functioned well but I could not get down on the sights it was to fat and I did not have enough drop in it. So I made note of that and my next rifle was better. You have to start somewhere and I think your rifle is a fair start.

I agree with Mike though you have to get your hands on a few originals to fully appreciate what is needed to build a rifle. Even Jaeger's that are more robust than our American Longrifle are fairly slender when held in the hands. Looking at pictures can be quite deceiving as to the size of Jaeger's.

Good luck with your building. It is an addiction you know ;D
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 08:06:33 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2016, 05:01:39 PM »
I like it ! The Jaeger is supposed to be robust.  Each made for the Jaeger himself !  The millitary jaeger rifles were made as close to pattern aSporting Jaegers are for the most part one of a kind / individual works, no two alike. s possible . What lenth and caliber is this one.  So if you like it , and it fits you it is right. Thank You for showing . Ron.
You need to handle originals too. You can always tell on contemporary jeagers if the builder has actualy handled an antique or not.
Jeagars were built according to "schools" just like American longrifles so they are alike inside of their "schools" .  Unfortunately today, Most contemporary work is done willy-nilly with no adherence to any particular school. It seems as long as they are built short, fat and lumpy you're in....not hardly close to what the originals are. It also helps to build them with the correct wood too. :P
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Offline L. Akers

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2016, 06:12:21 PM »
Greg, the first rifle I built was re-worked 3 times to remove excess wood.  The more I learned about rifle architecture the more I realized how much wood still needed to be removed.   I think that will happen with you too.  As has been stated, handle as many antiques as you can, look at guns in museums and study pictures in books.  The more you learn, the more wood you will want to remove.

Offline conquerordie

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2016, 06:22:06 PM »


This is the rifle that I used as inspiration.  I was able to blow it up to actual size to use as my profile for my stock. I also took some of the carving as inspiration for my rifle.  Its short and stocky.  Ive read that maple was used on originals. Looking back on Herman Historica, some of them do look curly maple to me. I read it was being exported to Europe throughout the 18th century. But I am not a professional, in learning.  I agree that handling originals is the best.  I've handled countless muskets from the 18th century, but not  single rifle.  I hope to remedy this for my nest project. Keep the critiques and comments coming.  If I've made mistakes, or can make improvements I want to do them.  My feelings wont be hurt, I promise.  

As a side note, my ramrod channel did dive down some towards the lock so extra thickness or height is due to that in part. The barrel measure 21.25 long. At the breech it measures 1.33, smallest 1.08, and muzzle 1.25. Thick bar of a barrel made by Rice. Shoots great though. Copied off an original. Thanks
Greg
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 07:44:50 PM by conquerordie »

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2016, 06:50:15 PM »


This is the rifle that I used as inspiration.  I was able to blow it up to actual size to use as my profile for my stock. I also took some of the carving as inspiration for my rifle.  Its short and stocky.  Ive read that maple was used on originals. Looking back on Herman Historica, some of them do look curly maple to me. I read it was being exported to Europe throughout the 18th century. But I am not a professional, in learning.  I agree that handling originals is the best.  I've handled countless muskets from the 18th century, but not  single rifle.  I hope to remedy this for my nest project. Keep the critiques and comments coming.  If I've made mistakes, or can make improvements I want to do them.  My feelings wont be hurt, I promise. 
Greg

I don't have the "eye" for this type of rifle but your build looks as "chubby" as the picture -- again it is just a picture and as I have never held one of these rifles I can only go by the picture. I do like your "chubby" Jeager ;D
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Offline Joe S.

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2016, 09:04:59 PM »
No expert here either but sure looks like a nice job of emulating the original you posted.Besides she ain't fat,she's just big boned ;)

Offline conquerordie

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2016, 10:19:37 PM »

Here is the jeager in maple I thought I saw.  Its how I justified using maple for my stock.
Greg

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2016, 11:30:23 PM »
where is the one you're trying to emulate?  I don't see it.      I looked up jager rifles on google and found lots of good pictures.  Never seen one in person.   Seems like a lot of them are very ornate and have more of a baroque style of decoration.  


edit:  now I see the pictures of the one you were using for inspiration.   Those pictures were blocked for me earlier.  Nice looking gun.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 04:20:50 PM by Mikecooper »

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2016, 12:14:35 AM »
Seems our opinions differ Mike. Thats OK , just your opinion, and just my opinion. Everyone has one. One thing I do agree with you  about, I do need to handle some originals. You should handle some originals also , then you will see there are no two alike . If built in the time period of thier design , they would  have been built to fit the owner .  Matter of fact there is an nice 1803 Danish / Norwegian , .72 cal.  sitting here that needs some handling  as I type . I think I will.  I cant comment on the willy/ nilly builders part , I do not know these builders you speak of.  and would not want to offend them, with such talk. Sincerely Ron Wehmeyer
It seems I have probably handled several hundred over the past  three and a half decades. Or, maybe I only dreamed it..... ::)  I'm not working with an "opinion" here. There are areas or "schools" that jeagers came from and they are clearly identifiable. It wasn't an "anything goes" bag of mixed matched mumbo jumbo of parts, carving  and architecture. For instance, If I saw a Brandenburg school gun (Berlin) it would be immediately recognizable  because of the traits of the Brandenburg school were very distinct. Same with all other schools across the German/Austrian etc. lands.

As to contemporary builders, it's odd how the truth sometimes offends. ;)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 12:28:41 AM by Mike Brooks »
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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2016, 01:51:42 AM »
  I didn't realize there were so many schools of Jaegers.  The pic is one I owned a year or so ago.  The barrel is .54 and 25" long.  It is fairly trim and light by Jaeger standards.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2016, 03:00:11 AM »
Bravo to you Conquerordie for re-doing your gun. It's a big undertaking of a complex nature. I am not an expert as I have only seen two original Jagers and got to shoot one several times. So from my limited experience I will say I think your gun still needs some thinning down. If it were my gun I would also lengthen the wrist just a small amount and would place the forward sling to the rear some so it would rest on the forward RR pipe. Even though she is a big boned girl she does have some charm. What cal. is it?

Offline conquerordie

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2016, 03:09:33 AM »
I think the name "chubby jeager" is gonna stick with this gun. So specifically where too trim wood? I'm not going to redo this gun again, but I want to know for my next build. I used the scaled up picture to use as a template.  Its the size of the original so I want to keep it that way. So where specifically on the buttstock and forearm should I watch on my next build?

Can anyone answer as to what school this rifle is from? Just curious. I have builders blindness because to me it looks great, that's why I asked all of you. You can see what I'm overlooking. Keep them coming!

PS it's 62 caliber.
Greg
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 06:01:31 AM by conquerordie »

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2016, 04:28:30 AM »

 Considering I had the privilege to examine most all the jeagers that George Shumway had come through his booth since 1980 or so, and the vast number of high end gunshows I have had the opportunity to attend,  and the fact The largest gun auction house in the world is located with in an hour of my house and that I also worked there writing descriptions for a time I suppose some where around 100 to 200 jeagers wouldn't  be too far off of the actual number I have had the privilege of handling.
 I didn't just fall off the tatter wagon yesterday...... ;)
Not bragging, just giving you my background.

The gun in question isn't bad, but he would have built it completely differently if he would have had a chance to handle it in person. Photos can be very deceptive.
Look at Shumways books and the dimensions listed for the jeagers he features. It's all about the barrel man, and the width of the buttplate.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 02:15:35 PM by Tim Crosby »
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2016, 03:19:12 PM »
I think you did a good job on youre first build.Its a good way to measure youre progress.When you can look back at youre first build and compare to what you are doing now.You can only get so much from reading books and looking and studying pictures.We have to handle and study the real thing.

Offline Pete G.

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2016, 05:24:23 PM »
If someone were contemplating building a Jager what reference would be a good one to learn about the schools? Seems that the major suppliers only handle limited parts for these early pieces and I am wondering if they are really compatible or not.

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2016, 08:00:42 PM »
.....And to think all this came from me saying I like the OP'S Jaeger and if it fit him , then it was right......


No, I think it was your previous statement that "Sporting Jaegers are for the most part one of a kind / individual works, no two alike."

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Offline conquerordie

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2016, 08:15:21 PM »
So I am for sure going to build another jaeger now.  I have to improve the overall stock architecture by getting better research material, and handling originals.  Im lining up a few places, putting in some emails to see what they have that I can examine.  I like to build odd guns, earlier the better, so I fear that I might not be able to find the perfect rifle to view, but I will take what I can get to get a better feel for the design aspects that I missed on my first build.  If anyone has material on a rifle they'd like to share, or know of a few originals in the New England area, PM me and I'll see what I can do.  Maybe Ill try posting this next build like others have, so I can get comments and concerns as I build instead of trying to redo after I've finished.

As another member asked, does anyone make hardware that is appropriate for these rifles.  Im aware of Ron Scotts incredible stuff, but my taste lies with more simple guns, so too fancy furniture will look silly on one of my rifles.
Thanks again for all the comments. 
Greg

Offline Joe S.

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2016, 02:32:47 AM »
Been thinking about this a while.......Perhaps another novice builders opinion might help.Never built one of these things before and when I decided the time was right I started to do a little research. The Internet is a wonderful thing,brought me here.While my rifle choice is different the theorys the same.Pictures and history can only serve you so far,me I had a chance to handle original rifles a fellow on here was gracious enough to let me see.Problems getting away prevented me from seeing these pieces of history.Looking back on it,It would have made building said rifle a whole lot easier. Pictures even with detailed measurements while a great thing there's something about getting a feel for it in your own two hands,the feel,the way it handles,ect.If I where you and jeagers are your passion seek out somebody who has originals and get the "feel" of them.You will get lots of opinions here for what it should look like ,how to build ect.ect.This is all great but sometimes it may leave you with more questions than answers.Find someone who's built them and knows his stuff and hopefully he will field some of your questions,while posting questions here is a great help getting five,ten different opinions is not if your just getting your feet wet with your build.My two cents.

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2016, 04:22:43 PM »
You might think about coming to the CLA Show/meeting in Lexington this summer. Usually there are a number of original and contemporary Jaeger's there that you can actually handle.. as well as o bunch of other beautiful pieces and the best bunch of most helpful builders and collectors you will ever find!!
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: My first rifle from a plank..........take two!
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2016, 06:50:09 PM »
I generally don't supply critique unless it's specifically asked for. In this case, Greg, you asked for comments and critique.

Critique is a tricky thing; it can make one uncomfortable, and sometime even make one angry, especially after having put so much of your hopes and dreams into a piece, whether it be a gun, a painting, a garden shed, etc.
I, for one, have not always received criticism well, but have slowly learned that it most often given in a spirit of generosity, and a genuine interest in helping me to see or improve my skills and my own ability to criticize my work as I move through a project. But you can't live in a bubble; so I continue to check my work with friends who I know will give me an honest opinion, rather than 'atta-boys', which do nothing but stroke the ego.

I find criticism to be a real touchy business, so there is small wonder that feelings can be hurt and tempers flare when there is so much at stake. As a suggestion, I prefer to meet with someone in person, and have them go over my project with me, so there is little misunderstanding. The written word is SO OFTEN misinterpreted, as there is no eye contact, no vocal inflections, no body language to let you know that the critic is really in your court.



 
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