Author Topic: russ hamm lock/frizzen (Read 18230 times)

lew wetzel · « **on:** March 30, 2009, 03:42:44 PM »

i got this lock saturday and it has a very small hair line crack in the frizzen.any of you guys ever fix one or experience this .i could braze the crack and rivit or braze a piece of carbon steel to the face.maybe silver solder the crack.i got this from a friend during the swap meet in lodi.....or should i just not worry about it....or do any of you older fellas that have been building for 20-30 years have any hamm frizzens laying around.......

albert · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2009, 04:15:20 PM »

if you can't find another frizzen,I would silver solder a piece of steel to the face of it,I had one break many years ago,but was able to get another one from Russ before he died.

George F. · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2009, 05:24:16 PM »

You can probably find a replacement from the Rifle Shop. Depending on their stock. You also might be able to make one if you have that kind of skill. I cracked one while buffing it. It grabbed the wheel took off and hit the wall. It looked longer than yours, I had taken a larger frizzen and reshaped and modify it to fit a LG Siler, but with a thicker bolster,. thus making the frizzen wider....Geo.

doug · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2009, 05:52:48 PM »

Are you sure that is a Russ Hamm lock and not a CVA? I have one more or less identical made as a copy of the Hamm lock

cheers Doug

lew wetzel · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2009, 06:10:59 PM »

yes it is a russ hamm lock,name is stamped into back of lock plate...

J.D. · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2009, 08:41:03 PM »

I agree with Albert. Grind off the face of the frizzen, and maybe drill a hole at the termination of the crack, to stop the crack from running all way across the frizzen. Braze or silver solder a shoe on the frizzen. The hole drilled to stop the crack from running can be used to pin the shoe to the frizzen for brazing.

For that matter, I have seen a coupla originals that have the shoe pinned near the top of the frizzen and two pins at the bottom. However, in this case, I suspect brazing or hard silver soldering would be the best bet.

Track has a coupla blank frizzens sold to reconvert old locks. Might check the size of those.

Do you have another lock with a frizzen that will fit? Sometimes things work out easily, sometimes not.

If all else fails Jerry Huddleston mentioned making frizzens from heavy angle iron. Never done that, so can't offer anything in that area, but support.

Blacksmoke · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2009, 10:25:29 PM »

Lew, If you "halfsole" the frizzen with a piece of file--shape and draw temper first then soft solder the sole on it should fix the problem. Soft soldering the sole will not over heat the sole so as to over draw the temper. However if you screw it up and can't fix it I think I have a spare Russ Hamm frizzen some where in my "spare parts" drawer. Hugh Toenjes

albert · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2009, 10:55:23 PM »

most likely,you won't be able to drill the frizzen,unless you have carbide tipped drill bits,if my memory serves me correct,the frizzens were made of investment cast o-1,and were through hardened. also if anybody would have any extra frizzens,I would like to get a hold of an extra,the one that I have is 40 yrs.old,but looks good now.

David Price · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2009, 11:35:26 PM »

Lew,

I have this Russ Hamm lock plate with the frizzen and spring . It doesn't look exactly like the one that you have but if you think that it will work you can have it.

Sam Everly · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:06:02 AM »

I have fixed a couple of frizzens that had cracks . Draw it back to soft and tig weld each side of the crack , file it and clean up the face with a belt sander . Then heat treat like normal .

B Shipman · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:00:24 AM »

Lew, you have a Hamm-Maslin lock. David has the Hamm-Early style lock. They are not interchangeable.
There are two fixes. Obviously soldering won't work as the hardening process destroys the solder.
TIG welding will work if you have a TIG welder.
Riveting on a piece of carbon steel will work and is a traditional method. It isn't hard to do. The first time I did it ,I had no problem.

Grind an appropriate amont from the face of the old frizzen. Bend a piece of steel to roughly fit. Doesn't have to be exact in curve or on the edges. Easy.
Soften frizzen. Use 3 penny finishing nails as rivets. Keep the head of the nail. Drill hole in top of frizzen and steel facing, countersink, and rivet. Drill another hole at base off to side and do same thing and then the other side of the base. 3 rivets, 1 top , 2 at base. Harden properly. Done.

Majorjoel · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2009, 12:34:07 PM »

If given a choice, and the lock is not already installed in a rifle, I would not build a new rifle using this lock. We are so blessed today with many choices of great quality locks and barrels. The Hamm lock in my opinion and experience was used a lot in it's day because there just weren't too many choices available. It is a good lock to have around as a replacement\parts lock because there were a bunch of very nice rifles built around them. Just my humble 2 cents.

rdillon · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2009, 06:09:57 PM »

I agree. Too many nice locks out there to risk building a rifle around an old lock that you cant get parts for. If you can make replacement parts your self then thats not a problem.

northmn · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2009, 06:18:24 PM »

I had used a couple of Russ Hamm locks and some from his succesor. Really could not recommend them in flintlock. The one way they sparked was to rivit and face a piece of radioactive metal that was sold by Hamm and had to be removed from the market. I also faced the locks with spring steel and hardened them. Saying that I do not recommend them is an understatement but politically correct. I really agree with Dillon and Catjoel.

DP

J.D. · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2009, 06:27:03 PM »

Quote from: Sam Everly on March 31, 2009, 01:06:02 AM

I have fixed a couple of frizzens that had cracks . Draw it back to soft and tig weld each side of the crack , file it and clean up the face with a belt sander . Then heat treat like normal .

I repaired a foreign made, mild steel frizzen by welding the crack, then pack hardened with good results. I don't know if the Hamm lock is through hardening steel or cased hardened, and didn't know how well welding would work on a through hardened part.

Dan'l 1946 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:26:19 PM »

I have one of these on an old rifle and it sparks in a barely O.K. fashion. I've been told that CVA copied this lock so closely that the parts interchange and if true that would solve your problem. If the lock is on a rifle already, it might be worth looking into the RPL line of locks from L&R. One of these locks is a replacement for the Hamm lock and the CVA lock.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #16 on:** April 01, 2009, 03:44:02 PM »

i am either going to use it on a kid rifle or pistol....it sparks now...i just dont want the crack to get any worse...i quess we have gotten spoiled with all the different manufactures of locks out there...i would like to see this hamm lock get a second life and if i have to do a little work on her,so be it...

Mike R · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2009, 04:10:49 PM »

it is odd reading so many negative views on the Hamm locks, which in their day were considered a top quality lock. My oldest flintlock was made by the famed Keith Casteel using a germanic early style Hamm lock back in 1974 and it still sparks quite well, thank you very much. The main reason I would not use your lock today is parts availabilty--and the obvious damage on the frizzen. Keep it as a collectable and buy a new lock is my advice.

lew wetzel · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2009, 04:22:16 PM »

if a fellow is going to build rifles he should be able to produce every part,maybe except the barrel...thats what sets people apart....those who buy and those who make....being able to perform certain skills in this field will keep you going longer and make you stand out...retuning and making a part for an old lock is not a big deal,its challenging and teachs you something valuable...

northwoodsdave · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2009, 04:37:29 PM »

Lew

I think you're right about getting spoiled by easily available spare parts and entire replacement locks obtainable with no problem.

In my opinion, this lock is a treasure. It comes from an era when those things were simply NOT available. It may have some shortcomings compared to a modern commercial lock, but there WERE no 'modern, commercial flintlocks' when Russ Hamm was making these.

The creation of early firearms has a fascinating history, but there is another history out there. It's how a handful of folks kept shooting and building a type of gun that was totally dismissed as a historical curiousity, and started a movement that burgeoned into the modern Black Powder folks.

Tossing this lock in a back drawer and using a "real" lock with commercially available parts for a new build would be a shame! And an insult to those pioneers, like Russ, that made flintlock shooting a reality again.

Sorry, but needed to get that off my chest:

Dave

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #20 on:** April 01, 2009, 04:58:10 PM »

Quote from: lew wetzel on April 01, 2009, 03:44:02 PM

i am either going to use it on a kid rifle or pistol....it sparks now...i just dont want the crack to get any worse...i quess we have gotten spoiled with all the different manufactures of locks out there...i would like to see this hamm lock get a second life and if i have to do a little work on her,so be it...

Something else to contemplate b/4 starting that new kid's rifle project using this lock! I have seen many new shooters and in particular kids get handed a less than good rifle to 'start'. After a short while with possible poor results from a barely workable rifle get frustrated and quit the game b/4 they really get hooked on it! When I say less than good I refer here to that old lock and not your workmanship! Just my twopence worth.

Mike R · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2009, 05:30:26 PM »

Quote from: lew wetzel on April 01, 2009, 04:22:16 PM

if a fellow is going to build rifles he should be able to produce every part,maybe except the barrel...thats what sets people apart....those who buy and those who make....being able to perform certain skills in this field will keep you going longer and make you stand out...retuning and making a part for an old lock is not a big deal,its challenging and teachs you something valuable...

I agree with that. If it works or can be made to, then I see no reason not to use it--as I said my ca. 1974 Hamm lock still works as good as any I own. Not everyone has the skills set to make their own parts. I have seen posts on several sites belittling one brand or another mainly over cosmetics--when I was learning to build, a real gunsmith would have laughed at some of the comments--the barrel is no good because I need to draw file it smooth--it doesn't come that way! -or- the lock is no good right from the factory, I've got to tweak it! Yep, that was then and now most seem to want all the work done for them...

lew wetzel · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2009, 07:55:26 PM »

roger,not to worry if i go the kids rifle rout instead of the pistol i will make sure it fires very good!!!would not want him to go through some of the agrivating moments i went through...lol

David Price · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2009, 02:59:16 PM »

Lew,
I tried to send you an e mail but it would not go through. If you want that lock plate and frizzen please e mail me your address. (david@davidpriceflintlocks.com) Don't worry about the shipping cost.

Curt J · « **Reply #24 on:** April 03, 2009, 10:47:09 PM »

I have a Russ Hamm lock on a rifle built in 1976 by Jerry Marsh in Brookfield, Illinois. It sparks just fine and got me an eight point buck a couple of years ago. There is a guy who has a booth at Friendship, who has parts for Russ Hamm locks. Yes, the frizzens are made of 01 tool steel, this gentleman told me so.

He is: John Eder
Flintlocks Inc.
6929 Beech Tree Road
Ninevah, IN 46164
Phone 317-933-3441
E-mail flintlocks@skyenet.net

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Author Topic: russ hamm lock/frizzen (Read 18230 times)

lew wetzel

George F.

doug

lew wetzel

J.D.

Sam Everly

rdillon

northmn

J.D.

lew wetzel

Mike R

lew wetzel

northwoodsdave

Mike R

lew wetzel