Author Topic: Non grease patching lubes for hunting??? (Read 14351 times)

tpr-tru · « **Reply #25 on:** July 30, 2016, 04:30:30 AM »

With coconut oil are you using "pure coconut oil" or "refined coconut oil" ? Both are in the cooking oil section of the grocery store and prices are close. Loads of brands available, including a"pure organic" offering. Thanks for the reply.

Don Steele · « **Reply #26 on:** July 30, 2016, 12:39:23 PM »

The product I've used is Lou-Ann, 100% pure Coconut oil.
As previously noted, on the shelf...in my air-conditioned house it is a soft white solid. If I kept it in my very hot garage this time of year, it would be a clear liquid. To use it, I go ahead and liquify it in a small container either in the microwave, or by setting it in the garage, then add patch material, or pre-cut patches to it, until I get them sufficiently and UNIFORMLY saturated.
One note to remember...if you have too much of it on your patching material, you're gonna have a mess on everything you touch, including your rifle stock, hands, ramrod, etc. which will not help your scores.
This would be another time to add: "Don't ask me how I know this".

Curt Lyles · « **Reply #27 on:** July 30, 2016, 02:25:40 PM »

The oil that I use comes from soapers choice my wife buys it in 5 gallon buckets for her soap making I have no experience with what you get from the grocery stores . I'm sure it's about the same thing though . mine is the 76 degree melt and they do make one that's 92 degrees I doubt if it makes any difference though.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2016, 01:51:27 AM »

Some advocate using less oil. A sloppy wet oily patch shoots less accurate for some. One could, for instance use a mix Balistol and water mix, wring out he patches, then let them dry.

So why not skip the water and use acetone? The water just takes longer to evaporate. Please work outside! Acetone is flammable. The part of Balistol that does not evaporate is plain old mineral oil. They have that at the drug store.

I have used lacquer thinner and rendered beef tallow. I did not get scientific about group sizes. They were less messy to handle.

One could do the same with any oil, or greasie stuff. The idea would be to have an even distribution of the lube of choice but not have it all sloppy wet. A mix of say 5:1 coconut oil and acetone might be worth investigating. IF nothing else your shooting patches would smell like a trip to the beach on a sunny day.

Curt Lyles · « **Reply #29 on:** August 01, 2016, 06:36:26 AM »

I would think twice about using acetone in any bullet lube as it has ketone in it which goes straight to your liver and causes problems.Ask your Doctor first.

Smoketown · « **Reply #30 on:** August 01, 2016, 11:16:40 AM »

Scota and all,

Water is a great solvent but, it does not break down oil.

Oil floats on water and I can't 'de-grease' my tools with just plain water.

Acetone, lacquer thinner and the like appears to 'remove' the oil.

Will the oil be the same when the acetone evaporates?

Also, alcohol, acetone and lacquer thinner won't touch/dissolve some types of oils. (I've tried!!)

Cheers,
Smoketown

Daryl · « **Reply #31 on:** August 01, 2016, 07:43:31 PM »

Quote from: Curt Lyles on August 01, 2016, 06:36:26 AM

I would think twice about using acetone in any bullet lube as it has ketone in it which goes straight to your liver and causes problems.Ask your Doctor first.

Yeah - what Curt said - I stopped using Acetone for cleaning grease from my hands in the 80's due to warnings like this. However, due to being on medication for cholesterol, I've had regular liver tests - and all still OK.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 02, 2016, 10:24:20 PM »

Most every solvent has lots of warnings these days, for instance look up the MSDS for various alcohols. As they go acetone is pretty benign. Remember I said to work outside?? I would also suggest wearing nitrile gloves and not huffing it. One could of course use another solvent. Naptha or Coleman fuel might work. As is the case for any solvent, do not bathe in it on inhale it. Solvents are flammable, do not work near the water heater!

Acetone a big danger?

www.rsu34.org/safety/safety/msds/Cutex%20Nail%20Polish%20Remover.pdf

That is the MSDS for nail polish remover. IT is 75% acetone. It is intended to be swabbed on the fingers. If it were a danger the Cutex company would have been sued out of existence long ago.

As for liver toxicity, I would be much-much more concerned about drinking alcoholic beverages. The liver toxicity on the MSDS above, is from drinking it. ....don't do that.

The ingredients that make Balistol mix with water are pretty ominous on paper too. The danger from chemicals are more from continuous exposure. Working with such solvents in an industrial situation is an example. Occasionally making shooting patches while observing common sense precautions is not danger.

The best way to avoid any possible issues is to never use any of it. That is certainly a valid choice.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #33 on:** August 02, 2016, 10:29:48 PM »

Curt Lyles · « **Reply #34 on:** August 03, 2016, 03:02:14 AM »

I have found that the coconut oil work so Good by itself that it doesn't need anything added with it butt test or use it the way you feel is necessary. I use acetone on occasion but I take all the precautions I can as I would with any other hazardous material. I guess if the acetone evaporates why even put it on to start with.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #35 on:** August 03, 2016, 05:56:24 PM »

"I guess if the acetone evaporates why even put it on to start with."

The idea is to have less lube on the patches, less lube than you can get with the full strength lube. You can pay a guy for information on a "system" that does that with Balistol and water. Balistol is miscible in water. It may be that a 5:1 dilution provides best accuracy. Maybe a different dilution. Full strength Balistol may not shoot the best but, less might shoot better. My point was that it could be done with another oil. Since other oils are not miscible in water we have to use something else. My choice would be acetone.

Another interesting fact about acetone. IT is produced in your body when the blood sugar gets too low. IT happens to diabetics. IT is called ketoacidosis. It is a bad deal and makes you very sick, it does not destroy your liver.

And finally..."Ask your Doctor first." I once asked my doctor about eating wild game harvested with lead shot. It felt it was a bad idea to do so. Total nonsense IMHO. Gotta keep risk management in perspective.

David R. Pennington · « **Reply #36 on:** August 06, 2016, 03:37:35 AM »

I never got as good results from greased patch as I did with wet ones till I started using bear oil. Find you some bear hunters or the local taxidermy shop.

Darkhorse · « **Reply #37 on:** September 19, 2016, 12:11:44 AM »

I started using a commercial wet lube based on the rave reviews this product was getting. All based on fact, the stuff is really good for shooting and cleaning. So I used it for hunting a few times. It was turkey season and I left my rifle loaded for a few days. Upon leaving the camp I shot a target because everybody wanted to see a flintlock shoot. Someone said " The leaves are on fire!" and they were in a couple of spots. The wet lube had dried and the patch caught on fire and started a small fire in the dry leaves and pine needles.
I was fortunate that someone noticed the small fire before it spread. But in a hunting situation one might not be so vigilant and it could get out of hand. So know your wet lube well before you take to the woods.
As for the wet lube I was using, I still use it. Just not for hunting.

axelp · « **Reply #38 on:** September 19, 2016, 03:41:41 AM »

since this is a traditional muzzleloading site, what did the old dead guys use?

spit and grease....

when i hunt I use grease for my patches--usually mink oil or bear oil with some beeswax melted together.

for tree rats I mostly use my smoothbore with shot and do not use any lube for that-- if I get too fouled, I will swab with some spit and then load the next shot.

I live in a pretty dry area and I have to be very careful... I just don't hunt when its too dry and hot out.

K

EC121 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 19, 2016, 04:44:41 AM »

I've been trying coconut oil mixed with TOTW mink oil to thicken it up some in the hot weather. Don't know about the accuracy, but for some reason it makes clean up really easy.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #40 on:** September 19, 2016, 07:25:27 PM »

It astounds me that there are so many on this sight that seem to automatically run to some non traditional "magic bean" sauce for patch lube, when traditional lubes are available, are cheap, and work. None of these concoctions will make up for not going to the range though. JMO.

Hungry Horse

Darkhorse · « **Reply #41 on:** September 20, 2016, 03:13:15 AM »

I used Crisco for over 20 years for a patch lube for hunting and target shooting with no complaints. I never had a problem with Crisco for hunting and I could leave my rifle loaded for a week or longer and count on it firing. I went back to it several years ago for hunting.
I did use Wonder Lube for awhile and had it freeze one morning. I shot a deer and my prelubed strip was frozen. When I finally got a ball started I couldn't push it down the barrel. To seat it I had to tap the ramrod against a tree before I could track my deer. I didn't know it would freeze at the time.
I do use one "magic bean" patch lube and cleaner for cleaning and shooting if I'm going to shoot right then. It works good.
I do agree about the range time.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #42 on:** September 20, 2016, 03:42:22 AM »

Darkhorse;

You must not live in fire country. The flashpoint of Crisco is about like shooting a flame thrower. In bone dry Northern California we avoid Crisco like the plague.

Hungry Horse

axelp · « **Reply #43 on:** September 20, 2016, 04:32:30 AM »

This year begins a Statewide hunting ban on lead in all of California. (Since 2008 it was only in the south and selected historic California Condor habitat.)

Not only do Californios have to beware of dry hot woods, We have to hunt without lead. (thats for big game and upland game as well.) Hungry Horse, what do you use in your traditional muzzleloader to replace lead projectiles?

K

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #44 on:** September 20, 2016, 03:12:53 PM »

Ken I'm getting beyond the age where I can go into the woods hunting, but if I were to want to hunt in California, I probably would look into tin as a possible bullet material. It's readily available, home castable, and relatively heavy. Nothing that I have heard of will obturate like lead, so accuracy will no doubt suffer. I probably would choose an area likely to produce a short range scenario, and probably would use a smoothbore since obturation isn't as important in a smoothbore.

Hungry Horse

bob in the woods · « **Reply #45 on:** September 20, 2016, 03:49:56 PM »

Yes, if you can't use lead, I'd definitely go up in caliber i.e. .62 or more. Of course , the alternate is to just move .

[ probably a good idea anyway since it will fall into the ocean one day

]

axelp · « **Reply #46 on:** September 20, 2016, 05:25:27 PM »

Hungry Horse, back in 2008, when the writing was on the wall so to speak, I started experimenting with non-lead roundball options in my slow-twist muzzleloaders.

The best option I found that was home cast, was 85% Bismuth, 15% tin. You have to use a mould that is a tad smaller than for lead because bismuth expands when it cools, but the result is a dense, "relatively" soft projectile, that will not harm your barrel. I got hunting accuracy-- meaning I could keep em on a pie plate. They penetrated well but had virtually zero expansion. Sometimes they would crack into two pieces if they hit something really hard, but they don't bounce.

The other option I found that is NOT home cast, is ITX non-lead roundball. Its pretty hard stuff but it is softer than barrel steel and will not harm your barrel. But just to be safe, I always use a leather chamois greased patch to help protect my bore. It has inherent issues-- you cannot pull it if you dryball, it will bounce off hard surfaces, but it has superior penetration.

ITX non-lead shot is a great option for muzzleloaders. It patterns great and will not harm the bore. You can crush a pellet easily with a pair of pliers, They have been known to create a better pattern than lead. Good stuff. I will be using it this year on squirrels and turkey because the law kicked in this year--very sad to say.

I have a goodly supply of ITX roundball for my 50 cal rifle, and ITX shot for my smoothbore, because I was a tester/prostaff for Tombob Outdoors. I only use it for hunting---its spendy stuff.
K

axelp · « **Reply #47 on:** September 20, 2016, 05:34:22 PM »

Bob, I'd consider moving but my house/property is only a couple years from being paid off, and my kids all live nearby, and its a few minutes drive to national forest where I can hunt,fish and run around... Maybe someday.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #48 on:** September 20, 2016, 07:21:25 PM »

I think that unless you are loading a real tight combination, or using a very thin patch, the ball never touches the barrel anyway. Heck you could shoot a steel wall if you wanted too. Just sayin'.

Hungry Horse

bob in the woods · « **Reply #49 on:** September 20, 2016, 09:49:42 PM »

Ken, I was just jesting, but am serious about the larger cal. being better. At least a .54 rather than a .50

News:

Author Topic: Non grease patching lubes for hunting??? (Read 14351 times)

Smoketown