Elephant powder

[Daniel]

 Talked with a man earlier that is priming with Elephant powder.  His rifle doesn't always go off.
Could it be the powder ?  He has opened up touch hole. It's an L&R classic lock too. Brand new.
Frizzen too hard or soft ?

[bones92]

Is the primer flashing in the pan but not setting off the main charge?  Or is it not lighting the primer powder?

[Longone]

Maybe try what ever powder he is using for the main charge and see if there is any different result.

[Daniel]

Some times it does not Ignite and or main charge. He used another mans powder and does ok.
Not a lot of sparks and has changed flints too. Get a delay using his powder.

[Mike_StL]

Elephant Powider has been a  very "dirty " with excess fouling.  It is possible the powder is the problem. It is telling that other black powder worked better.

[smylee grouch]

I have heard of people who use Elephant powder to move rocks but never use it in their flintlocks. 

[Daniel]

  That's kinda what I told him. Goex, Swiss , Shutzen much better.
Thanks guys.

Daniel

[Ky-Flinter]

Elephant Powider has been a  very "dirty " with excess fouling.

That was my experience with Elephant brand powder too.

-Ron

[Mauser06]

Too many unknowns...


I have quite a few buddies that I hunt with....most all of us have TC guns...I cannot tell you about the deer that get away because their gun doesn't go off...


The issue is simply they don't take care of their Flint/frizzen...I've watched 2 of them wipe their Flint and frizzen with oiled cloths...then the next day they can't understand why their gun doesn't fire....


After a shot it is almost critical to wipe the flint/frizzen/pan clean... personally I use patches soaked in %91 rubbing alcohol...cleans it and doesn't leave a residue and dries almost instantly...


On the range I mess around with not wiping..I can usually get a few shots off but after that it's pretty inconsistent and tougher to get to fire...if it's real humid forget it...better just clean it...



I've passed on my alcohol patch tip to my buddies...only one listened...his gun typically goes off now!  He just needs to learn to shoot it more accurately...don't know why the others won't listen...



I don't know what they originally used...but they had to use something to clean the flint and frizzen...

Anyone know??   

[Mike Brooks]

I always used elephant in large bored shot guns for skeet, sporting clays and trap. Never had ignition problems with either percussion or flint. It is VERY dirty though. I could never get it to work in rifles with out wiping between shots.

[wattlebuster]

I used elephant for several yrs an never saw anything to complain about. I got good accuracy out of it an it went bang when I wanted it too. If I could get it now i would shoot it. I went through 2 cases of it an the price was right at about $4.50 a lb IIRC. As far as the dirty part I have yet to shoot a powder that aint dirty be it goex, swiss, or the german stuff

[Bob Roller]

I have heard of people who use Elephant powder to move rocks but never use it in their flintlocks. 

I loaded some 45 Colt ammo with Elephant and it fouled badly.
There is still half a can on my "powder shelf"along with a can
of 4fg DuPont bought from "Red"Farris in the 50's and one can
of DuPont 3fg from Wes Kindig in 1969.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

Elephant Powider has been a  very "dirty " with excess fouling.  It is possible the powder is the problem. It is telling that other black powder worked better.

The powder WAS the problem.The Colt SAA I just mentioned fouled within 24 shots and was hard to recock.
Our son,Rob,Tom Schiffer and myself shot 100 rounds with GOEX 3fg,35 grains per case and the old style
bullet Lyman 454191 buttered with a home made lube and the gun got so hot the metal parts were untouchable
but we had no problem with consecutive shots.This was in the early 1990's at Ralph Marcum's Hooten Old Town
shoot for buffalo guns and period revolvers.There IS a difference in powders.

Bob Roller

[Bill of the 45th]

There is a reason it was nicknamed Pachy @#$%/!!!  Supposedly though it's been reformulated by the new manufacturer.

Bill

[hanshi]

More than a decade ago Elephant was sometimes the only powder available locally.  I bought and used many cans of it and it worked fine in my rifles.  I even killed deer with it.  I believe it is no longer made and has been replaced by another powder called "Diamondback".  I haven't tried the new powder but the price, while no longer $4-$5 a can, is still comparatively modest.

[bgf]

Yes, elephant as primer can cause problems, just as described. 

My Durs Egg frizzen benefitted immensely  from drawing the temper (softening) a bit.  I started a thread with details a few years ago.  Pretty easy if the frizzen is too hard.

[P.W.Berkuta]

Mad Monk did a write-up of this powder some time back - it's here in the archives somewhere - good reading. The powder had a "fowling" issue and lack of engery in the beginning because of the wood used for the charcoal. That wood was replaced with willow (I think) and the powder got much better sometime around the later part of the company's existence. I have some 2F left (not as "dirty" as the early stuff) and use it in my SXS's when I shoot them.

[Mad Monk]

Setting the way back machine.

There were times when Elephant could be an exercise in frustration.  I became involved with them in 1993.  The plant finally closed after the big run in 2000.  But during all that time Elephant was available when GOEX could not produce to to the frequent plant shutdowns after explosions.

The frustration was that in the old plant in Brazil it seemed that everybody was in charge but nobody was in charge.  The high point in the Elephant was the 1999 production for the U.S.  But did they do it the same way for 2000?  Nope.  Some polishing room foreperson thought it should be more polished.  The density went way up.  The thick glaze/polish made it more difficult to ignite.  were that not enough.  The guy who ran the wood charring operation retired after the 1999 run. The guy that took over just did not have the same level of skill so the fixed carbon content of the 2000 run was a bit too high.  Slowed the burn and increased the bore fouling.  In all about 6 million pounds of Elephant came into the U.S.  That saved the day for shooters and reenactors when GOEX was shut down for repairs.  There was a period of time in the 1990s where they were out of production more than they were in production.  In addition.  The priorities were that military powder production came first.  Our small arms "Rifle" powder was considered to be a fill in on the production schedule for slow military orders.  The military was paying 3 times the amount of money we were per pound of powder so that set the scheduling priority.  Without Elephant, at that time,there would have been extended periods of time when you simply would not have been able to buy any GOEX powder.

Nobody wants to talk about some of the crappy lots of GOEX that hit the market at various times.  I spent several hours this morning at the Gunmaker's fair and that was a topic of conversion between a few of us.  The bench gun shooter was joking about how he relied on my work on GOEX to pick out the best lots that gave him the highest degree of accuracy.

So Elephant was on the market at the right time.  But after the old plant was closed the machinery was moved to a new location.  Took awhile for it to get up and running.  That showed up as Diamondback.  but by that time we had Schuetzen and Swiss readily available on the market so a powder the quality of the older Elephant did just not have a place on the U.S. market.

[wattlebuster]

Monk I must have been the only guy in the US that got ahold of the "good elephant" cause what I shot which was a good bit was as good as any goex I have ever shot. It was bought in the very late 80s or early 90s I cant remember which. I wish I had it back to shoot all over again but like Cheech an Chong it went up in smoke

[Mad Monk]

Monk I must have been the only guy in the US that got ahold of the "good elephant" cause what I shot which was a good bit was as good as any goex I have ever shot. It was bought in the very late 80s or early 90s I cant remember which. I wish I had it back to shoot all over again but like Cheech an Chong it went up in smoke

The Elephant powder did not show up in the U.S. until 1992.  At the same time WANO tried to get into the U.S. market through an American company set up by some man who had retired out of one of du Pont's explosives plants.

The parent company of GOEX had filed for bankruptcy protection around 1988.  Then there were the "incidents" at the GOEX plant and users were wondering if the plant would be repaired and go back in production.  So it was a thing of foreign powder companies looking at the U.S. as a possible high volume market and a group of users who wondered where they could get black powder if GOEX failed to rebuild and produce.  After 1988 GOEX was watched over by a bankruptcy court and that did not end until around 1998.  At the same time there were several other black powder plants in other countries ceasing operations.

[L. Akers]

Wattlebuster, there were two of us!  I never had any issues with Elephant.  I still have a couple of pounds of 2F.

[wattlebuster]

Wattlebuster, there were two of us!  I never had any issues with Elephant.  I still have a couple of pounds of 2F.

I would be more than happy to do away with that for you. Just let me know if you need any help

[P.W.Berkuta]

My black powder shooting only goes back to the mid 60's when Duponte was avalible to me and it was the best. It might just be because it was the only blackpowder my local gun shop had in stock .

[hanshi]

Make that three, Wattie; I had no problems with it either.

[Candle Snuffer]

I tried a can of 2f and 3f Elephant powder way back when... I didn't care for the 2f, if I remember right it was really dirty, but the 3f was okay. I still prefer Goex and will use it until I can't get it anymore.