Heat treating oven for lock parts?

[Hemo]

I'm looking to acquire a heat treating oven/furnace for hardening/tempering lock parts, springs, etc.  I've hardened and tempered some small parts and springs using an acetylene torch and guesstimating colors, but I think I need to move up to something with a bit more precise temperature control. (I'm currently assembling Jim Kibler's Dolep lock parts, and expect I'll be doing more lock work in the future.)
Looking online, there appear to be some small electric furnaces for knife makers which might fit the bill, all starting in the $1,000+ range. Does anyone have any recommendations on a furnace? I never used one of these before, so any advice is welcome. (I'm not interested in making my own from scrap parts, and accurate temperature control is a must!)

Thanks, all!

Gregg

[smart dog]

Hi Greg,
I have a Neycraft burn-out oven purchased from www.riogrande.com for about $500 (I think).  I added to that a Paragon Sentry 4 programmable oven controller also from Rio Grande for about $450.  If you are serious about doing the heat treating work on a regular basis then I urge you to get an oven with a programmable controller.  The controller allows you to program a wide variety of heating and cooling regimes that can be important when hardening, tempering and annealing different alloys of steel.

dave

[Hemo]

Hi, Dave,
I just looked up Rio Grande's site, and they have a little "Firefly" kiln that runs on 110 volts for $450. www.riogrande.com/Content/00-features-of-firefly-psd. This little entry-level unit looks like  it may fill the bill for any little parts I may need to heat treat. They say in the video that you have to babysit it and watch the temperature on the thermocouple without leaving it alone. I wonder if there is an automatic controller that could do that task. Looks like the temperature goes to 2250 degrees F. What do you think?

Thanks,

Gregg

[Sidelock]

I have been shopping for a heat treat oven for a while now.  Have not made a purchase yet - here is one that I landed on that looked like it would do what I needed and the price wasn't too ridiculous - I'd be interested in opinions on this product:
http://www.clay-king.com/kilns/evenheat_kilns/evenheat_copper.html

[T*O*F]

Keep an eye on Craigslist.  Very often, kilns come up for sale cheap by women getting out of the pottery hobby.

[Ed Wenger]

I second the craigslist suggestion.  It took me a few months but found a nice Neycraft that way, at about half the cost.  Melts brass & silver nicely for casting, and works great for treating.  Also consider the size, if you think you might be doing more than just treating springs, having one that will accept a decent sized crucible to melt metal is always handy...


         Ed

[Long Ears]

This is the one I have and it's fantastic! Programmable and readily availability of parts of you ever need them. Bob
http://usaknifemaker.com/knife-making-machinery/heat-treat-ovens-and-accessories-c-57/paragon-km14d-furnace-w5-5-xd14-5-xh4-25-sentry-digital-12key.html

[Mark Elliott]

I bought a Neycraft from Brownells many years ago.  Eventually,  I added a Digital controller for less than $100 in parts off of eBay. The PID controller sits where the pyrometer used to go.   I put the  SS controller on the side with a large heat sink.   Works great. 

[M. E. Pering]

I wish I could give you a good recommendation, but Neycraft has a pretty good reputation.  My home-built junk works just fine for me. but I understand some don't want to go that route.  I have used a Neycraft kiln in the past, and it did well for what it was designed for.  A friend had it, so I had access to it.  But that was many moons ago, and I can't ask her how it stood up over the years, but she really liked it. 

Matt

[smart dog]

Hi, Dave,
I just looked up Rio Grande's site, and they have a little "Firefly" kiln that runs on 110 volts for $450. www.riogrande.com/Content/00-features-of-firefly-psd. This little entry-level unit looks like  it may fill the bill for any little parts I may need to heat treat. They say in the video that you have to babysit it and watch the temperature on the thermocouple without leaving it alone. I wonder if there is an automatic controller that could do that task. Looks like the temperature goes to 2250 degrees F. What do you think?

Thanks,

Gregg

Hi Gregg,
I don't think the Firefly would work very well for your purposes.  It appears to be top loading, which would be very inconvenient for any heating operation that required something to be grasped easily and removed quickly, like case hardening or melting metal for casting.  The specs also do not provide the size of the chamber.  The Neycraft JFF-2000 (the oven I own) has a cavity about 9" wide, 7" high, and 9" deep.  Those dimension work well but I would not want a smaller chamber.   I am sure you could wire a controller to it (mine is the Paragon Sentry XPress sold by Rio Grande, $455) but I think something like the Neycraft would work much better.  I noted that several of those ovens are on e-Bay right now. 

dave

[jerrywh]

 A kiln works pretty well for both case hardening and tempering but I would not rely on a analog pyrometer for either operation. 
I always use a digital pyrometer for both operations. Pottery operations do not require such precise temp. control.  When I case harden a part with gold inlays I must stay withing 25° or the inlays can alloy.
  Most likely you will have to baby sit a kiln if you don't have some sort of programmable temp. control.

[Hemo]

Thanks for all your input, guys.
I just ordered  a used Neycraft JF-2000 on E-Bay for $750. Also ordered a new Paragon Sentry Express digital controller from Rio Grande for $455. I assume connecting these two gizmos doesn't require a lot of intense internal electronics.
One benefit of this burnout oven I hadn't planned on is the possibility of using it for lost wax castings, so I can get into making some fancy cast escutcheons, sideplates, and whatnot.
Might at well make it pay for itself!

Gregg

[smart dog]

Hi Gregg,
No the wiring is easy.  I can help you with that.

dave

[Hungry Horse]

 I have possibly a stupid question. I have a small old enameling kiln, with a front door. Could it be used for heat treating? I know one would have to put some newer controls on it, but does it have the capabilities? I used it in the past for a burn out kiln while doing lost wax jewelry casting.

Hungry Horse

[Mark Elliott]

I have possibly a stupid question. I have a small old enameling kiln, with a front door. Could it be used for heat treating? I know one would have to put some newer controls on it, but does it have the capabilities? I used it in the past for a burn out kiln while doing lost wax jewelry casting.

Hungry Horse

Only you can answer those questions.   Is it big enough for the work you want to do, and will it get hot enough?   I would think big enough for a lock would be big enough.    Most tempering happens below 750F.    You case harden at 1400-1600F.    That is all I use my oven for.   I have a steel box(crucible) made for my approximately  9"x9"x9" (inside) Neycraft oven that can accommodate an entire lock.   I normally use small graphite crucibles to hold small parts.   I cover everything with SS heat treat foil when case hardening.  If your oven can do those things,  I would say you are golden.  You just need to make or buy a controller.   You can make a simple temp controller for less than $100 or buy a more sophisticated controller like has already been discussed here.

 

[Hungry Horse]

Mark;

  I think I may be in business. I know the kiln will get hot enough, and controllers are available. So I guess I'm going to have to learn the rest. Thank you all for the information.

  Hungry Horse

[Hemo]

All right, I'm now the proud owner of a used Neycraft JF-2000 fiber oven and a new Paragon Sentry XPress temp controller. Plenty of programming instructions came with the latter, no instructions with the Neycraft oven. I'm in need of some basic advice. The Neycraft has a single simple dial that goes from "LO" to "HIGH", an analog dial thermometer, and a hole in the top.

I assume the Paragon temp controller thermocouple goes down the hole in the top of the oven, mounted on the little cone-shaped fire brick piece it came with. When I fire this up, am I right to assume that the oven plugs into the outlet on the side of the temp controller, and that the controller then manages the power input? How high should I set the oven temperature dial? Is it necessary to do a programmed "ramp up" heating using the temp controller? When I put my metal parts in for heat treating, do I start them in a cold oven or heat it up first? Do they need to be elevated into the central portion of the oven cavity, or can I put them right on the ridged fire brick tray that came with the oven?

Lots of basic questions from someone who never set one of these up before. Any help appreciated! (Smart Dog Dave, are you out there?)

Thanks!

Gregg

[smart dog]

Hi Gregg,
I am out there and I will gather the right materials for you and get back to you.

dave