Do these shot patches look ok?

[newknapper]

I was trying to sight and in my chambers Virginia today and nothing I could do would raise the point of impact. I was shooting on a bench at 25 yards and all my shots(15 or so) would hit low. I started with 70gr of schnitzel FFFg and seen some patches had burnt through so I bumped the charge down to 65 and had the same results. So these patches are from a 60gr load. I am shooting a .610 ball and a .018 patch I got from October country. All patches had the frayed edges. When I went to clean the gun afterwards I noticed 3 bumps as I pushed the cleaning patches down at the bottom of the barrel from what I guessed was fouling ring. It took me having to get a brass brush to get rid of the rings. Thanks guys.

[mparker762]

They don't look too bad, though you are getting more blow-by than I would like, each patch has a spot where the scorching goes around the ball.  This is a new rifle?  Fresh rifling is prone to cutting patches until it's worn in a bit, it looks like you might have one land that is a mite sharp.  You might want to move up to a .020-.024 patch for awhile until the rifling burnishes a bit.  The patch edges will fray no matter what, there's always some blow-by no matter how tight the patch and that will cause some fraying, and the rest happens when the patch hits the air @ 1000+fps. Scorching is dependent as much on lube as patch, you just don't want it burned through around the side though like you have, though again that may well go away in a hundred shots or so.   What lube are you using and how much?

As for the sights, you want it to hit low right now.  Once you have worked up an accurate load, you can file the front sight down a bit at a time to raise the impact until it's hitting the bullseye.

[newknapper]

They don't look too bad, though you are getting more blow-by than I would like, each patch has a spot where the scorching goes around the ball.  This is a new rifle?  Fresh rifling is prone to cutting patches until it's worn in a bit, it looks like you might have one land that is a mite sharp.  You might want to move up to a .020-.024 patch for awhile until the rifling burnishes a bit.  The patch edges will fray no matter what, there's always some blow-by no matter how tight the patch and that will cause some fraying, and the rest happens when the patch hits the air @ 1000+fps. Scorching is dependent as much on lube as patch, you just don't want it burned through around the side though like you have, though again that may well go away in a hundred shots or so.   What lube are you using and how much?

As for the sights, you want it to hit low right now.  Once you have worked up an accurate load, you can file the front sight down a bit at a time to raise the impact until it's hitting the bullseye.

The patches I have are prelubed patches cut in the clover leaf pattern. I think a tighter patch would be ok because the .018 patch goes down with not much problem at all. Yes this is a new gun, I haven't even shot 20 balls through it yet. The one thing that was concerning me was that I was filing the sight trying to move the impact up and it wouldn't move. And I filed it down a lot.I was getting burned through patches with the hotter loads. I didn't think about the rifling being sharp.

[mparker762]

Don't file down any further until you get your load set.  You can always take more off but its tough to put it back on.

Also you might want to consider using FFg in that rifle unless you're just really attached to FFFg for some reason.   FFFg is pretty fast for that bore diameter.  That will lower the pressure and help considerably with the patches.

[newknapper]

Don't file down any further until you get your load set.  You can always take more off but its tough to put it back on.

Also you might want to consider using FFg in that rifle unless you're just really attached to FFFg for some reason.   FFFg is pretty fast for that bore diameter.  That will lower the pressure and help considerably with the patches.

I agree. I am going to order some FFg soon. This power I have now was given to me from a friend just to try out and get started with. I appreciate the help. Thanks

[Daryl]

The scorch marks - brown streaks from flame going past the ball in the grooves shows the ball/patch fit is too loose. I would be using a larger dead soft ball and that patch, or a thicker patch.
If the cutting and scorching is due to sharp lands, a piece of Scotch-Brite on a jag & tight in the bore, run up and down the bore with some WD40 or other thin oil will take the sharpness off the land edges.
Cutting can also happen at the crown. Make sure there are no sharp edges at your barrel's crown.

ALL of these crowns will allow loading balls larger than the bore, with a .022" patch, without cutting. The last picture shows one method of getting these smooth crowns that allow tight loading without cutting the patch.

[newknapper]

I ran a piece of ultra fine scotch brite through about 5 times soaked with a light oil. I didn't want to do it much more than that. I shined a small lighti got today down the bore and it shined like a mirror. I could see that about half my breech was black. I don't have a fouling scraper so ill have to get one of those. Here is a picture of my muzzle. it wasn't sharp at all. I am going to go to the fabric store and try to find some .022 or .024 material before I shoot again.

[Molly]

Shot my 58 yesterday.  .57 ball and .18 dry pillow ticking patch.  Patches suffered a varying degree of burn through which mostly seemed to vary with the amount of lube used.  All were dry patches and Mr. Flintlock was used as the lube.  Being a little sloppy in applying it the first had too much.  Resulted in a burned through patch.  Subsequently lessened the amount of lube and experienced less burn through.  The patch that came out almost completely whole was with no lube.  Wonder if the fouling effectively "lubes" a dry patch as it goes down the barrel.  Funny end of it all was that the group was all withing no more than 2 inches and one ball did enter almost the exact hole of a previous shot.

[Squirrel pizza]

Hey Newknapper, lapping the barrel with steel wool won't hurt it, and may in fact help. I don't think 4-5 passes with scotch bright, or steel wool will be very effective, maybe a few more licks will help. The tighter the patch the better. I use bore butter as a lube. Some folks will disagree with me. But I've found it significantly reduces fouling, as it not only lubes but cleans between shots. How does your load work at 50-100yds? Is it still way high?

[Daryl]

Rounded rifling is usually .016" deep, or deeper. It requires a thicker patch.  The Scorch marks on the patches show this quite plainly.

Thanks for the picture of your muzzle - the transition from the crown angle cut to the bottom of the grooves and the tops of the lands is too sharp for me. PLS compare the crown pictures with yours.

[Joe S.]

Very interesting observation Daryl, spot on.

[hammer]

Looks to me as if those patches are a little on the small side.  Too much fraying around the edges and the ball isn't central.  Only just reaching round to the circumference.   I suggest trying with larger patches and a wet lube such as Neatsfoot Oil.   May be all you need to do.

[Ron Wehmeyer]

I agree with what Hammer says, I would try his advice . The crown on your rifle looks fine . Enjoy your shooting! . RW .

[newknapper]

Rounded rifling is usually .016" deep, or deeper. It requires a thicker patch.  The Scorch marks on the patches show this quite plainly.

Thanks for the picture of your muzzle - the transition from the crown angle cut to the bottom of the grooves and the tops of the lands is too sharp for me. PLS compare the crown pictures with yours.

If I were to knock the edges off at the crown what grit Emory cloth would you recommend?

[newknapper]

Looks to me as if those patches are a little on the small side.  Too much fraying around the edges and the ball isn't central.  Only just reaching round to the circumference.   I suggest trying with larger patches and a wet lube such as Neatsfoot Oil.   May be all you need to do.

I tend to agree. I have not like those patches at all. If you don't get the ball perfectly centered the patch doesn't look good at all. I am gonna go to the fabrics store soon and look for some thicker material and make my own patches. Thanks for the advice..

[RichG]

round groove barrels seem to like thicker patches. a wet lube will probably solve the rough fouling rings. also if your trying to work up a target/plinking load you'll probably need a thicker patch/larger ball, because the pressure in a .62 with only 60gr. off powder is not going to be enough to cause the ball to expand and fill the grooves, thus causing the gas blow by and fraying of the patches.

[newknapper]

round groove barrels seem to like thicker patches. a wet lube will probably solve the rough fouling rings. also if your trying to work up a target/plinking load you'll probably need a thicker patch/larger ball, because the pressure in a .62 with only 60gr. off powder is not going to be enough to cause the ball to expand and fill the grooves, thus causing the gas blow by and fraying of the patches.

I am gonna try to find some .022 or .larger patch material. The largest ball I have found is a .610.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

My Lyman .610" ball mould throws balls @ .613" in pure lead.  I shoot this ball with .022" denim patches lubed with spit (for trail or target) and neatsfoot or mink oil for hunting over 127 gr. FFg GOEX in my 11 pound Hawken.  This load is pretty flat shooting to two hundred yds., and I get full pass through on a bull moose.

[Daryl]

10 ounce Denim mic's .0225" for me.  It's perfect with .005" or sometimes .010" undersized balls (from bore diameter).
The crown has sharp edges where it meets the bore.  I use 320 emery clock, or 320 wet/dry paper.  A tapered stone grinding stone with 1/4" shank & cloth of paper wrap, held in the fingers and rotated in the muzzle will smooth/cut those sharp edges. Finishing with the end of your thumb and crocus cloth will make it shine!