New Diamondback Black Powder

[arcticap]

Nothing about it came up on a site search.
Has anyone tried it yet or heard any reports?

February 20, 2009. Diamondback! New powder - blackpowder!. This blackpowder from Diamondback Powder Co., Tamaqua, PA and Canada, is pretty good. We have it in 2F and 3F for re-enactors, cartridge loaders, and generally for people shooting with blackpowder. Enjoy!

5 lb. lot: $17.70 per lb
10 lb. lot: $13.60 per lb
25 or 50 lb. lot: $10.00 per lb.
Price includes shipping and hazmat fee.

http://www.powderinc.com/

[hanshi]

The price is sure reasonable.  I'd also like to hear feedback from shooters who've used it.  I wouldn't mind trying it myself.

[Dave K]

I would like to hear more about it as well. The price does seem very fair, if it is good powder.

[Roger Fisher]

Good ol Chuck Dixon had a lb or two last fall, I do believe.  A shooter was given a pound and had it a a local shoot.  First thing was the dumb pain in the butt twist off plastic cap that should be changed.  The shooters if they get any of it will pour it into a Goex can or some such to use it...   Compared the looks of it by pouring a bit in to my hand alongside of some goex.  The Diamond Back was more even in size and didn't have the slivers as the goex had.  It also was 'blacker' than the Goex.  The shooter shot several shots at 25 yds which was a poor way to test it.  It ignited fine and so on; but I want to see it fired at 75 and 100 yds from a good rest on a target.

I tried to pry that can out of the shooters fist; but he was the stronger of the two of us.   I believe if you liked the Elephant you will like this also. 

[Candle Snuffer]

Roger, when you said it ignited ok, was you referring to both cap and flint locks?

[roundball]

"...I believe if you liked the Elephant you will like this also..." 

Not quite sure how to take that 

[Daryl]

ICI, C&H and Meteor used to use the plastic caps that pop off until the 'tab' breaks off.  Didn't mind them, but the flange sticks down into the powder so far, you have to pop it right out of the can to drain it.  No real problem- just a 'pain' as Roger put it.  Too, the inside of the 'spout' is smaller in diameter and pours slowly, for those with large 1-pound capacity horns with hungry mouths.

[Roger Fisher]

Roger, when you said it ignited ok, was you referring to both cap and flint locks?

I seem to recall he was shootin a flint.  He wouldn't let me have any

[Dave K]

To me, this is scary. You mean this is like Elephant?
I tried to pry that can out of the shooters fist; but he was the stronger of the two of us.   I believe if you liked the Elephant you will like this also. 
[/quote]

[hanshi]

   Hmmmm...I've burned a lot of Elephant in my time but not for a while, now.  Seemed okay to me and I never had any complaints.  I always preferred (still do) Goex and always stock up on that.  Is there a problem with Elephant I don't know about?

[Gene Carrell]

I have always liked Elephant. Some don't like it because it is dirty (dusty), and some lots were worse than others. It also leaves more fouling than other powders; but it is soft and moist which is what I want when not cleaning  or swabing  between shots on a long, hot, dry day.

[roundball]

I believe one of the things that led to the demise of Elephant was it poor quality control resulting in significant lot to lot variances.

Back in 2000, I bought 5 cans of 3F...made in '99...could not use it...even tried it in a caplock and the delays were so bad I could not use it in them either.
Looked for a re-enacter to possibly give it to and finally took all 5 cans to the range one day, poured them out in 5 long 10' lines on the ground and burned them off.
Poor quality ignition, nasty fouling, literally had pieces of wood in it, etc.

Switched to Goex and am on my 4th case...never had a single problem and the stuff is outstanding, fast, clean, and accurate...wouldn't waste my time and gasoline driving to the range to use a free can of Elephant after that experience.

[Mad Monk]

I believe one of the things that led to the demise of Elephant was it poor quality control resulting in significant lot to lot variances.

Back in 2000, I bought 5 cans of 3F...made in '99...could not use it...even tried it in a caplock and the delays were so bad I could not use it in them either.
Looked for a re-enacter to possibly give it to and finally took all 5 cans to the range one day, poured them out in 5 long 10' lines on the ground and burned them off.
Poor quality ignition, nasty fouling, literally had pieces of wood in it, etc.

Switched to Goex and am on my 4th case...never had a single problem and the stuff is outstanding, fast, clean, and accurate...wouldn't waste my time and gasoline driving to the range to use a free can of Elephant after that experience.

The demise of Elephant had utterly nothing to do with QC problems.

In the year 2000 the winds that bring the rainy season to the Amazon Basin shifted South for some reason.  The area around Recife was treated to the monsoon rather than the Amazon Basin.  The S/A Pernambuco Powder factory was under water for close to 2 months.  No production and large cleanup costs once the flooding receded.

Now the man who owned the S/A Pernambuco Powder factory also owned an ethanol plant neaby that produced ethanol from sugar beets.  That plant was also put out of production by the flooding, suffered damage and clean up costs were high.

No this man had limited resources.  So where was he to put his money.  He could not cleanup and restore both operations.  The ethanol plant produced a greater profit than the black powder plant.  It was a no-brainer.  He stuck what money he had into the ethanol plant.

The BP plant also had a problem shipping powder.  The city of Reciefe had started to grow to close to the plant.  Same deal as with the original duPont plant outside of Wilmington, DE in the early years of the 1900's.  You couldn't haul the powder through heavily populated areas.  You had to haul the powder out by a longer and more difficult route.
Then the ground that the BP plant occupied became prime developer's land.  Woth more with houses on it than as an operating powder plant.

A similar situation some years back forced ICI to quit the Deer Park, Victoria area and move their explosives operations way out into the bush in Oz.

Part of the reason that GOEX closed the old duPont plant at Moosic, PA was the fact that it was starting to be a problem with the area being built up.  Once the coal mines shut down that area was a "depressed" area until 10 to 15 years ago.  Now there is a good bit of new construction in that area.

E. Ogre

[roundball]

OK, I'll modify my conclusion:
 

I had 5 cans of garbage poor quality Elephant 3F that was not usable.
It was made in '99 yet others have said lots of their '99 powder were good.
That is poor lot-to-lot Quality Control.

If it was flooding that then actually caused Elephant to shut down, I guess I'd view that as a silver lining in the clouds...it just did sooner what continued poor QC of the '99 magnitude probably would have resulted in later, had it not been corrected quickly and decisively.

[Mad Monk]

OK, I'll modify my conclusion:
 

I had 5 cans of garbage poor quality Elephant 3F that was not usable.
It was made in '99 yet others have said lots of their '99 powder were good.
That is poor lot-to-lot Quality Control.

If it was flooding that then actually caused Elephant to shut down, I guess I'd view that as a silver lining in the clouds...it just did sooner what continued poor QC of the '99 magnitude probably would have resulted in later, had it not been corrected quickly and decisively.

Any truth to the rumor that during that year you were doing an Navaho rain dance?

The largest amount of Elephant poundage went to the reenactors.  Their criteria are simple.  Must be black.  Must go bang.  Must make smoke. Must be cheap.

In the field off BP sales in most years the blank shooting reenactors use a lot more powder than the ml crowd.
Around here you avoid any second-hand percussion ml gun that came in from New York or New Jersey.  Invariably it will have been shot with Pyrodex.

Between 1992 and 2001 there were 2,200,000 pounds of Elephant imported into the U.S.  Only very small amounts were fireworks or blasting powders.  Almost all of it went into small-arms shooting.

When you look at the highs and lows of the import quantities you see that Elephant picked up the slack when GOEX was shut down for their frequent explosions.  At the time it filled a need.  GOEX has since got their act together on plant safety so there is little need for Elephant.

The BP business has changed dramatically in the last 20 years.  No more 1 brand with one burn rate in several grains sizes filling every need.  No we have a lot of little shooting nitches that are being filled with powders specifically made to fill the niches.

E. Ogre

[Candle Snuffer]

I'll tell ya,,, in this age of high priced black powder I wouldn't scuff at Elephant powder if it kept me shooten.  I tried some back in the '80's and had no problem with the 3f, I thought the 2f wasn't very good however - with lots more fouling then the 3f.  I can live with that if I have to.

If Diamonback is the old Elephant, I'd chance the 3f...  I'd dang sure buy it over pyrodex and the other fake stuff.

Thanks for the reply Roger.  That was my concern if it was working alright with the
flintlocks.

[Mad Monk]

I'll tell ya,,, in this age of high priced black powder I wouldn't scuff at Elephant powder if it kept me shooten.  I tried some back in the '80's and had no problem with the 3f, I thought the 2f wasn't very good however - with lots more fouling then the 3f.  I can live with that if I have to.

If Diamonback is the old Elephant, I'd chance the 3f...  I'd dang sure buy it over pyrodex and the other fake stuff.

Thanks for the reply Roger.  That was my concern if it was working alright with the
flintlocks.

If what you are thinking about is out of Powder Inc. I can't speak on it.
Diamondback brought in two containers about a year apart.  I could not get my hands on any of the powder out of the first container.

After the second container arrived I had a call from Dixons who asked that I check it for them.
This Diamondback Chemical Company is located outside of Tamaqua, PA.  A rep from Diamondback had visited Dixons and left a can of that powder at the shop.

So it was off to the range with it and some GOEX to be run through the .50 GPR with a mule ear lock.
I simply ran it over the chronograph.  At the time I was getting ready for the cataract surgery so 50 yard targets were out of the question.  So I just looked at velocity and bore fouling using GOEX regular production 3Fg.
The Diamondback was about 80 fps slower than the GOEX.  But then I have seen a 100 fps spread in velocities with different lots of GOEX packed the same week.  So I don't know if I had a fast lot of GOEX 3F or a slow lot of GOEX 3F for that round of shooting.
Looking at damp cleaning swabs between shots you could not tell any difference between the two.  Ditto on the ramrod feel when loading without wiping after each shot.
Had I packed both powders in unmarked cans and gave them to somebody without a chronograph they would not have know which was which by the shooting out to 50 yards.

After I tested the powder for Dixon I was contacted by Diamondback who wanted up at Tamaqua for two days of powder testing.  Offered a hefty fee.  I declined.  My days of getting tangled up in the black powder business are over.

E. Ogre