Author Topic: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt  (Read 12206 times)

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« on: August 05, 2016, 09:21:15 PM »
My buddy Ron has been building a Hawken rifle with some guidance from this geezer, and it's turning out really nicely.  He wanted to colour case harden his iron hardware, and since I didn't do that to my own rifle, we polished up both sets of furniture.  We used straight hardwood charcoal for the first attempt, and we got quite satisfactory results.  But this time we wanted to try adding both bone charcoal and leather charcoal to the pack.  I had a steel crucible made out of 5/16" walled tubing about fifteen inches long, with a cap welded to the bottom and a loose fitting lid for the top.  Into this we poured garden variety bone meal to the top, and set it in our fire to cook.  It took quite a while...well over an hour but finally, the gasses stopped issuing (flame went out) and we removed it from the fire to cool overnight.  We got lovely charcoal.  Now we packed the crucible again tight with pieces of leather and again, cooked it to make it into charcoal.  The result was interesting: whereas the bone meal did not shrink appreciably, the leather reduced to about a third the volume, and this I crushed with a wooden pole.  In a clean plastic bucket we poured all of the leather char, all of the bone meal char and about twice that volume of wood char, and mixed it up.  Now we packed two other crucibles, each made from diesel truck exhaust stack steel pipe - about 4 1/2" in diameter with the char mix and our parts standing on their ends, none touching the pipe or each other .  Both of these obviously have steel bottoms welded on, and a loose fitting  1/2" thick  steel cap.  Several days ago, Ron and I made some 'tongs' out of rebar steel, for placing and removing the crucibles to and from the fire.

With the crucibles ready for firing, we made a hot fire in his backyard burning pit (pictures to follow) and when it was coals, we made a flat spot for each of the crucibles and set them into the pit.  Now we built up the fire with birch firewood, and within fifteen minutes had our crucibles at red heat...lids and all.  We sustained this fire for two full hours.

In the meantime, we made an aerator out of 3/8" flexible copper tubing, hooked up a compressor to it, and placed it in the bottom of a big garbage can.  We filled the can with cold water, and turned on the air, letting it bubble while the fire did its thing.
At the end of the two hours, we opened the fire, clamped on to each of the crucibles in turn and dumped them into the water.

The results were far more dramatic than our first attempt.  The colours are more varied and interesting, and much brighter, and the surface is very hard...a file simply skates over it.  We placed the parts in a common toaster over with an over thermometer and once a steady 375 deg. F. was achieved, we soaked the parts at a steady heat for one full hour.  I think that his intensified the colours and added some yellowish straw colour to spots that were first rather grey and boring.

Here's a short story in pictures...


This is Ron (left) and brother Daryl (right) staying cool and hydrated, sort of...



Here, you can see a crucible at red heat in the centre of the fire.



Here' Ron is removing one of the crucibles and within a few seconds, inverted the pot into the water.  We were careful to make this happen with the least amount of oxygen exposure possible.  The sun has moved around to the fire pit, and though it may not look like the crucible is hot enough, it is at red heat for sure.




The parts gathered from the bottom of the can, cleaned off with fresh water.




A close up...
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 09:31:55 PM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline alyce-james

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 909
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2016, 09:42:25 PM »
Sir; thanks for sharing the results of your case hardening project. Parts all look great however I like the parts with about 60 % coverage best. Have a great week end. AJ.
"Candy is Dandy but Liquor is Quicker". by Poet Ogden Nash 1931.

knifemaker3

  • Guest
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2016, 10:06:43 PM »
Nice results!  Thanks for sharing!

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2016, 11:06:56 PM »
Hahahahaha. You durned Canadians.....drinking beer and burning things. And look at the Phoenix that rose from the ashes! Taylor, you are always full of surprises. Great work, thank you for posting pictures....and showing the simplest color case setup ever.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Dennis Glazener

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19486
    • GillespieRifles
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2016, 11:33:05 PM »
Quote
and showing the simplest color case setup ever.
I really think his secret is how he spell's "color case hardening". He He, he didn't think anyone would notice.

They do look nice.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline FALout

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 875
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2016, 12:27:13 AM »
Great colors.  Do you think that the aerated water helped, neat and simple idea.
Bob

Offline KNeilson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2016, 12:46:13 AM »
Great Job!! Good tips on making bone/leather charcoal, thx, much more up my alley than my last attempt. Looking frwds to see them at Heffley...   

Offline jerrywh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
    • Jerrywh-gunmaker- Master  Engraver FEGA.
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2016, 12:53:12 AM »
 Taylor. That stuff looks pretty good . It will look even better when it is cleaned and oiled.  Nice Job . \
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Boompa

  • Guest
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2016, 01:20:10 AM »
Quote
and showing the simplest color case setup ever.
I really think his secret is how he spell's "color case hardening". He He, he didn't think anyone would notice.

They do look nice.
Dennis
    I think that's how it is spelled in Canada,  colour, color, seriously.  ;D

Offline PPatch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2456
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2016, 02:01:11 AM »
Right then Master Taylor, good job! I'll send you my parts when I'm ready for the colour treatment.  8)

dave
Dave Parks   /   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19556
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2016, 04:42:14 AM »
Looks great. Did it harden?
Andover, Vermont

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2016, 04:50:41 AM »
It sure did Rich...a file literally skates across.  Thanks all for your comments.

Spelling:  honour, harbour, neighbour, colour, flavour, etc., but not liquour...corner store spells is liquor - even the provincial stores - same.

The only concern regarding the pack hardening is that my butt plate warped.  The arc increased to the point that the toe is about 3/16" off the wood.  Bending it back is too iffy, so I'll reinlet the butt plate and have to deal with a little proud wood along the upper edges.  I'll have to plug at least the top hole too, and re-drill.  I can do this!
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2264
  • Oklahoma
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2016, 05:24:15 AM »
It sure did Rich...a file literally skates across.  Thanks all for your comments.

Spelling:  honour, harbour, neighbour, colour, flavour, etc., but not liquour...corner store spells is liquor - even the provincial stores - same.

The only concern regarding the pack hardening is that my butt plate warped.  The arc increased to the point that the toe is about 3/16" off the wood.  Bending it back is too iffy, so I'll reinlet the butt plate and have to deal with a little proud wood along the upper edges.  I'll have to plug at least the top hole too, and re-drill.  I can do this!

Makes you wonder how they dealt with warping back when these rifles were state of art.
Psalms 144

Offline SingleMalt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
  • One day I'll be considered a good builder.
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2016, 05:39:10 AM »
Beautiful color! Thanks for posting this.
Never drink whisky that isn't old enough to vote.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."- Plato

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

Offline Curtis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2339
  • Missouri
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2016, 05:59:27 AM »
Taylor,  the results you obtained are simply amazing!  Quite awe-inspiring!  Can't wait to see the rifles assembled with those colorful parts.  I will have to try my hand at that someday.

Curtis
Curtis Allinson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Boompa

  • Guest
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2016, 06:24:51 AM »
 Those Hawken parts turned out very nice, very good colour!
 

Offline Joe S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • the other Joe S.
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2016, 01:26:24 PM »
Been pondering doing this to my hawken iron,question, did you block all the thinner pieces Taylor?In theory if all the iron hits the quench the right way it should limit warping.If just one butt plate out of both sets of parts was the only one to warp a little that's pretty darn good.

Offline satwel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2016, 02:45:40 PM »
Those colors are very impressive. I have a couple of questions. Did you block the lock plates? How did you prevent them from warping when they hit the water? Also, had the parts been fitted to the stock before you case hardened them? If so, did they fit afterwards? I have read in other posts that butt plates can change shape slightly during the quench.

Thanks

Online Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9695
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2016, 03:13:01 PM »

Mighty fine job and really hard. Stands out like a goose egg in a bucket of coal.

Bob Roller
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 12:22:42 AM by Tim Crosby »

Offline Dennis Glazener

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19486
    • GillespieRifles
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2016, 03:46:25 PM »
Quote
I think that's how it is spelled in Canada,  colour, color, seriously.  Grin
Yes that is the correct spelling in Canada. My first cousin married a Canadian and lives there, I always tease her about it. Just kidding Taylor about it.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline flehto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3335
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2016, 03:55:39 PM »
Am totally ignorant about this type of treatment but have a question....how do the "colours" wear over time? Nice vivid "colours" and they surely are beautiful....probably all due to the beer?....Fred

Offline Joe S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • the other Joe S.
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2016, 05:55:33 PM »
The colors do dull abit over time and can wear off on parts of the gun handled a lot.Some put a clear coat on parts to help preserve the colors,clear nail polish works.I have an old shotgun where you can clearly see the clear coat wearing away as well.UV protection,wear protection ect.

Offline J. Talbert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2309
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2016, 06:21:42 PM »
Very nice Taylor!

You are going to show us the finished pair, aren't you? :D

Thanks!

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell

Offline jerrywh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8885
    • Jerrywh-gunmaker- Master  Engraver FEGA.
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2016, 12:14:54 AM »
 If you are going to use a clear coat I recommend Baking lacquer. Brownels has two kinds. Matte and gloss. The matte lacquer looks real nice.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline Tim Crosby

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18394
  • AKA TimBuckII
Re: Colour Case Hardening - second attempt
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2016, 12:23:42 AM »
 Dang! You guys have fun up there.

    Tim C.