Author Topic: Preparing Furniture Question  (Read 4936 times)

tgraytn

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Preparing Furniture Question
« on: August 20, 2016, 05:08:05 PM »
My Southern Rifle kit included steel hardware and I'm about to start on the sanding process.  I have several books and there seems to be several opinions regarding preparing the surfaces of the buttplates, trigger guards, nose caps etc. so I wanted to open it up for discussion:

1.)  Do you typically sand your furniture to a mirror finish (120 grit to 600, 800, 1000 grit) before browning?  If not, how far do you usually go with the sanding? 

2.)  I am going to use Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown & Degreaser on the barrel and I also purchased the Birchwood Casey Plum Brown to use for all of the furniture.  However after reading several posts regarding "Browning Barrel & Furniture", it appears that some were disappointed in the results of the Plum Brown on the furniture vs. the LMF Barrel Brown & Degreaser finish on their barrel.  Therefore my question is would you use the Plum Brown on the furniture OR would you use the LMF Barrel Brown & Degreaser on the furniture?

I realize that these are subjective questions due to being "a matter of personal preference".  However being that I have never used either, I welcome your feedback, thoughts and suggestions. 

Thanks!!

Tom

Offline rsells

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2016, 05:36:45 PM »
I never go any finer than 320 sand paper when finishing the surface of iron hardware on my mountian rifles.  Sometimes I stop after using 220 paper.  It depends upon how the surface looks to me at the time.  I use Plumb Brown to do my screw heads and small parts.  I have a hard time getting an even brown on large surfaces like barrels using Plum Brown.  I use Plumb Brown on screws because it is easier to do a repair if I scratch the surface of the screw in the screw driver slot during assembly and need to touch it up before finishing the job.  On the barrel and hardware I use Homer Dangler's cold brown or Davis cold brown depending upon what I have in house.  I have used LMF browning solution as well with good results, but the majority of the time I use Homer's solution which is available from James Kline.  Good luck with your project.
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Offline Chowmi

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2016, 07:33:58 PM »
If you sand it too much, the browning solution will not work well.  It needs something to bite into. 
As said above, 220 or 320 at most
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2016, 09:43:28 PM »
I never did like Plum Brown, always thought it had more Plum color than brown :) A few years ago I built a 32 cherry stocked NC squirrel rifle and decided to try Plum Brown again using heat. I thought that turned out pretty good. Seemed to have a darker brown finish and was very smooth more like a hot blue finish rather than the rust browning I usually use. You might try heating the parts enough to sizzle the Plum Brown when you put it on. Probably should be done outside or at least in a well ventilated area.
Dennis
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54ball

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2016, 03:52:08 PM »
 If the temperature is not right Plum Brown can leave a copper or bronze looking color. With that said some like it and use it on barrels and furniture.
 Personally I would use the LMF for both the furniture and barrel.

 As said you don't want to get too fine with a browned finish.

 Now, to really get these parts ready requires work with a a file. Even very good lost wax castings require some file work; usually a lot of of file work, to prepare them for final sanding/polishing. If you are adding details like joints on the triggerguard bow it can take hours of filing to bring these details out.

 Sandpaper is not a replacement or substitute for the file.

Offline PPatch

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 04:52:50 PM »
With those cast furniture parts I approach the filing with a light hand at first. What I want to do is find out where the pits and minor casting flaws are under that bead blasted finish before using a heaver hand to get below them. Try and not add to the pitting and such by scoring the metal with your files, this means keeping the files clean as you work. This is especially so when draw filing a barrel. Emery paper (auto store) is what you want when it gets down to the "sandpaper" part, but there is filing to do beforehand. Regular sandpaper isn't much use until you've arrived at the finishing grits. For browning I take it to 240 or 320. You want to remove all signs of the previous grit before moving to the next higher one, this means using cross-hatching strokes as you go. It is a lot of work.

I like the LMF browning solution quite a bit, it is very forgiving and results in a very nice brown. I've no experience with the plumb brown, can't advice you there - rsells remarks were right on though. With the LMF the first two coats might look a bit streaky and uneven, with coppery spots, don't freak out - all that will even out as you apply more coats. Don't rush the process either, here in the south where we live in a natural browning box I might get one of two coats a day on the metal. If you apply it too often you run the risk of the rust building too fast and flaking off. I card using a rough square of canvas or tow sack material, do it, card, before applying the next coat. Get all the red/orange rust off everywhere, the apply more. Generally it takes six or seven coatings to obtain a nice even brown.

When applying the LMF do so with a light touch, almost no pressure. All you are doing is wetting the surface with the solution. I use small squares of cotton cloth, cotton balls and Q-tips.

Good luck, it isn't as difficult as it may seem, I believe you'll have good results with the LMF.

dave
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 04:55:38 PM by PPatch »
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pushboater

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 05:29:21 PM »
I'd use the LMF on everything myself. I used Plum Brown on the first few rifles I built and was never really satisfied with the results. Difficult to get an even finish on the large areas. LMF is so much easier to use and after 6 or 7 coats produces a beautiful even finish. Great stuff!

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2016, 06:24:58 PM »
I went to 400 on the first lock I browned with LMF, the color was just OK.



I stopped at 220 on my last lock, I like the color much better.


Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2016, 07:18:20 PM »
Many old recipes for browning solutions refer to it as plum brown. I don't think this is an accident. If the original solutions produced the brown coloration we so often see today, it would be called rusty junk brown, or rotten plum brown, I suspect. Many years ago the gentleman that kept me from doing myself a great damage playing with muzzleloaders, found a recipe used by a local gunsmith to brown his gun parts. It was called plum brown, and after we had a local pharmacist brew up a batch, and applied it to a couple of barrels, we found it produced the rich red/brown shown on Eric's first example. I don't think the old timers would have wasted so much time making a browning solution that produced a color you could get by just letting it rust, or urinating on it. JMO.

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tgraytn

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2016, 07:52:39 PM »
Many thanks to everyone for your replies!!  MUCH appreciated!!  

After reading all of your comments, LMF it is for all metal!  I do have one immediate concern regarding me filing and sanding my butt plate.  According to what I am hearing, I completely went overboard (as I often do on things - trying to be "too" perfect)!  I filed with the bastard file first, then moved to the mill file and then on to the fine file before starting with the emery cloth.  I used 120 grit all the way up to 500 grit on the emery and then moved on to the automotive grade sand paper and went up to 1500 grit... it now has a mirror finish on it:



The reason I went through all of the steps is that each time I finished with one, minor scratches were still visible.  

Question:  I take it that minor scratches are OK?  Also, what should I do now?: Sand the mirrored finish with 220 grit?

Thanks again everyone for your help while I am still "on training wheels"!!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 07:53:35 PM by tgraytn »

Offline PPatch

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2016, 08:08:57 PM »
Nice job, but 1500 is overkill, it won't brown very well since the solution can't get a grip on such a smooth surface. Confession: I did the same thing when I first got into finishing a lock, took it to 3000 grit... wooops!

Just knock it back with some rougher grit before applying the LMF. The browning tends to hid the finer sanding scratches. They are still there of course but not really noticeable.

dave
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2016, 08:58:12 PM »
Many thanks to everyone for your replies!!  MUCH appreciated!!  

After reading all of your comments, LMF it is for all metal!  I do have one immediate concern regarding me filing and sanding my butt plate.  According to what I am hearing, I completely went overboard (as I often do on things - trying to be "too" perfect)!  I filed with the bastard file first, then moved to the mill file and then on to the fine file before starting with the emery cloth.  I used 120 grit all the way up to 500 grit on the emery and then moved on to the automotive grade sand paper and went up to 1500 grit... it now has a mirror finish on it:



The reason I went through all of the steps is that each time I finished with one, minor scratches were still visible... 


Excellent lesson on how to polish metals to mirror level-which is useful for things you want to BLUE or leave polished.  

Turning it brown will go MUCH easier if you knock it back to 220.  


Another thing you may have picked up in the process is how any level of "grit" can be "engaged" more lightly for a lighter cutting action. Another way of saying that 220 in the hand doesn't necessarily mean "220" on the work.

It was YEARS after I read Clyde Baker's references to using a piece of "well-worn" sandpaper/polishing cloth (Modern Gunsmithing 1935)  before I realized how much variability contact pressure played in the mix.  Honing straight razors (for actual shaving) taught me that.

--it's so difficult for me to stop cleaning on kitchen items of stainless because they're so easy to polish pretty and I always have various grits of sandy papers all around the sink... ::)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 09:03:49 PM by WadePatton »
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Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2016, 11:26:21 PM »
You won't see any fine scratches in a well rust browned finish, my latest;


Offline frogwalking

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2016, 12:03:41 AM »
Give the 1500 polish brown a try.  If it does not work, you can always scratch it up with 320 and try again.  If it does work, show us photo and everyone can learn.
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tgraytn

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2016, 05:58:37 PM »
Great information and thanks to all!!

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2016, 11:13:17 PM »
I do a lot of iron mounts and I generally don't go beyond  320 grit on iron or steel mounts.  They are almost always browned or similarly aged.  The exception is locks.   I always polish locks to 600 grit.   They should be bright and not browned.   If you plan to age locks, then they should be gray, not brown.   If I draw file  a barrel, then I leave it as filed.   

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2016, 03:26:08 AM »
 My personal opinion is that browning taken to the extent of Eric's latter examples is more a twentieth century thing. Barrels might have been browned a bit darker, but other iron fitting were more than likely the lighter clearer true plum brown shown in his earlier picture. Natural aging will eventually convert the plumb brown color to the rougher, darker, surface color so often found on antique guns. It only makes sense when you consider the most documented gun finishes for the most part are those used on the lowly trade gun. They ranged from polished bright iron, to a clear bright fire blueing, to a deep rich rust blueing. It doesn't seem logical to think that if the trend was towards bright semi transparent finishes, that they would all of a sudden decide to put a finish on the metal that looks like primer from the paint store. It also should be considered that it takes more browning solution, and more time, to produce the dark opaque coloration.

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Offline Kingsburyarms

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Re: Preparing Furniture Question
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2016, 01:29:07 AM »
Tom - Looking forward to seeing how this turns out...

Jon