Inletting Barrel Help Needed - Pictures Attached

[WKevinD]

Barrel fitting aside, how do you keep your shop and bench so clean

I think you would throw up if you saw mine!

Kevin

[Mike Brooks]

Just out of curiosity you folks that have many builds under your belts remember your first.While I get everything your saying about what's important and what's not but did you handle your first the same way?I think with new builders me being one of them learning good habits is not a bad thing.While getting the whole barrel channel right may not be necessary what harm is there in doing it on your first build.One learns the short cuts soon enough,along the way.I mean no disrespect and get both sides of it especially if you do it to pay the bills.As I plug along on my first build there's plenty I will do different from here on out but being a little anal on the first ain't a bad thing.

In my opinion only....Time is better spent on learning proper architecture , inletting, carving, engraving, etc...

If you can inlet a barrel by hand that's great, but if you want to really make a gun look right all the other stuff is much more important, especially if there are folks out there willing to do the barrel inletting for you.

Me, it's all a question of time. I can pay somebody else to do it far cheaper than I can do it by hand.

[SingleMalt]

My books speak of home-made "scorps" that are single blade scrapers for the same job.  Anyone care to comment, compare?  They seem easy to make and sharpen.

Jamie

PS Good thread.

I made one from an old file.  Break it at the straight-sided section and grind a half octagon shape on the end.  I bent mine to make it easier to use.  Wrap a wet rag around the business end to keep the temper intact.

[KentSmith]

My thoughts, my understanding this was a pre-carve?  I also assume you put the barrel in after squaring up the breech, but before inletting the breech plug or installing the barrel tenons?  How did it fit then?  I'd remove the inletting black with a sandpaper backed by a small block of wood as mentioned above.  Then I'd check the barrel tenon's clearance especially the one nearest the muzzle.  I can't tell from your pictures if that's inletting black around your tenons or pencil.  Make sure you blacken the tenons. If it was me, and the breech was tight and no gaps along the side walls, I'd do as Mike says, move on.  But its your gun so take your time with it and learn, even if that lesson is not to sweat the barrel fit so much.

Note:  don't be surprised that the barrel isn't 100% even if it is a pre-carve and especially if they routed the ramrod hole rather than drill.  To me, and this is just my opinion, routing a ramrod hole is a short cut.

My son recently started his first gun.  Like most first timers, everything is new and he tries to over-think things.  Being particular and learning the proper workmanlike techniques is important.  Understanding the way things flow is important.  Understanding what is important is important. 

But workmanlike doesn't mean perfect - it means "showing efficient competence".  I want him to go slow, learn and enjoy.  What I want him to learn about the barrel channel is, get the breech tight, get the sides even and tight, no gaps, don't spend a lot of time making the channel match the octagon barrel except at the breech and as close as you can without losing sleep at the muzzle.



 

[Long John]

Tom,

I will RESPECTFULLY disagree with some of the other more accomplished makers here - all the originals that I have had the opportunity to disassemble have well-fitted octagonal channels.  I've been also told that some of the original guns have the remnants of saw kerfs at the corners of the oblique flats and bottom flat, but I have never seen that with my own eyes, yet.  I think it depends on the historical context.  Early guns made by guys that apprenticed with a master that came from the old country were probably more carefully made whereas the guns made after the American revolution might be more casually made because that old-country German perfectionism had been diluted with practicality and necessity.

I make a "pull" or "hook" scraper with a 1/2 octagon cutting edge.  Only sharpen the cutting edge for the bottom flat - leave the oblique edges rounded over.   When scraping an oblique flat just rotate the tool 45 degrees. I have used both 1095 tool steel and old files.  If using annealed 1095 steel I bend the end cold and file the edges the shape I want.  Then I heat bright red and quench in diesel fuel.  I then temper the cutting end to a dark straw color.  If using an old file I anneal the steel by heating dull red and plunging it hot into a can of wood ashes.  This anneals the steel and  I then can bend it and sharpen the business end before re-heat treating.  A MAPP gas torch is all you need.

Then I take my scraper and scrape away where the inletting black has marked the stock.  Its a blacken, try, scrape, repeat process but in a few hours the barrel will set into the stock well.

If you are building guns for the money that puts food on the table you will probably see things differently that I do.  I'm a hobby builder and I do things the way I think is best.  The choice you make is yours to make.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Mike Brooks]

Here's a NC rifle with a round barrel channel that had an oct. barrel. Late period for sure (cap gun era) but round none the less.

[bama]

Hi Tom

Pretty much everything that the guys have stated has been good advice. I am not a new builder but I still remember the challanges of my first pre carved kit. One thing that is presenting problems for you is that once wood has been releived from the barrel channel and the forearm shaped the wood that is left can warp to the flow of the grain in the wood that is left. I can see where this is happening in your stock. Once you get the barrel inlet it will be good to leave it in the stock as much as possible while you are completing the project to hold this warpage to a minimum.

Your statement about making the barrel channel as perfect as you possibly can is a good statement. I am a firm beliver that the better the channel the more accurate the rifle. With that said there were many of the old rifles that did have rounded barrel channels. I believe this was done for cost savings and profit not to have a better shooting rifle.

I think many pre carved barrel channels are done to a pattern and not to a specific barrel. Although your info tells you your channel is 100% inlet, I doubt that it was inlet to the barrel you have and that is why you are having to do additional fitting. Barrel makers have patterns that they make there barrels to but I doubt each barrel is 100% identical, very close probably, but there will be slight defferences. What you have is a very close fit and with just a little fitting your barrel will fit nicely.

There are guys on this forum that will inlet your barrel into your wood and that inlet would be much better than what you have, although what you have is not all that bad. It is just not a drop in fit.

This is why I choose to hand inlet my barrels. Sure it takes longer and is a job that no one really enjoys, but the only problems I have to live with are those of my own doing. So stay with your statement of making the barrel channel the best that you can make it and be happy. Just go slow, remove as little as you have to to get that barrel down and be proud when you finish.  Because you will know in your mind it is done right.

Here are a few pictures of one of my hand cut channels. It is not perfect but I was satisfied with the way it turned out. It has taken me a long time to get them this good and I was happy with my work when I finished.

[Mike Brooks]

Way to go Jim......although your pics bring back no pleasant memories for me. After doing 14 of those by hand I was lucky enough to have Dave Wagner introduce me to Fred Miler. Nothing but sunshine and lolly pops since then!

[Tim Crosby]

 I may have missed something but the Web looks way to thick to get a slim rifle out of the stock. And the sides look like they need to be trimmed/shortened a bit. Maybe that will come when they are shaped.

   Tim C.

[Tim Crosby]

Way to go Jim......although your pics bring back no pleasant memories for me. After doing 14 of those by hand I was lucky enough to have Dave Waggoner introduce me to Fred Miler. Nothing but sunshine and lolly pops since then!

 Yes Fred, I saw him at the CLA show, he may have found the Fountain of Youth. Great guy.

    Tim C.

[M. E. Pering]

I am with Bama (Jim)...  Doing it by hand is the best way to make sure it is right.  Sure it will take a week or so, but while I work on it, it gives me time to consider how I want the rifle to be.  I don't have an exact idea of what I want to create when I start one.  Sure, I see the general gun that will come out of any piece of wood, but I start thinking about details too.  My rifles are not that elaborate, being from 1760 to about 1780, but the planning should work for any era. 

Matt