Author Topic: What is TC Bore Butter?  (Read 28280 times)

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2009, 09:20:18 PM »
Dan,

During that time period tallow or lard was the usual lubricant for a lot of things.

The area outside of Reading is now known as Mohnton.  The creek that runs through the little village of Mohnton was once home to a number of barrel forges from around the F&I War into the late 1800's.  The local German name for the creek at that time freely translates to dirty ditch.
The barrel forges used a lot of tallow and lard to coat the barrels before shipping them out.  no cosmoline in those days so lard or tallow served the same purpose.  Some of those Mohnton produced barrels were shipped as far West as the Hawkens brother shop in St. Louis in the 1830's and 1840's.  Out of Reading and onto canal barges for the trip West and down the big river.  In a canal barge hold it would always be damp and the barrels prone to rusting if they did not have a heavy coart of tallow or lard on them.

E. Ogre

Offline hanshi

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2009, 10:15:07 PM »
Mad Monk,
Yeah, the age thing I can't do anything about; any experience just came as a side effect.  Right now and for the past few years I simply use Crisco when I need a grease lube.  I'll probably experiment with some of the oils such as olive & neats foot before it's said & done.

Just a few years ago I discovered Black Solve from DGW and seldom use anything else these days.  I like Hoppes #9 Plus, too.  The black Solve is water based, cheap and I can do a LOT of shooting before (or without) swabbing the bore.  I use BS for all reloads, especially while hunting, as loading rod pressure doesn't increase with each shot.  I never leave a wet patch in the bore for too long or over night as they will dry out.  If I think the rifle will stay loaded a while I use Crisco, anyway.  My first patch is ALWAYS lubed with Crisco with wet patches after that.  This has worked well for me, at any rate.   ;D
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2009, 11:14:41 PM »
Mad Monk,
Yeah, the age thing I can't do anything about; any experience just came as a side effect.  Right now and for the past few years I simply use Crisco when I need a grease lube.  I'll probably experiment with some of the oils such as olive & neats foot before it's said & done.

Just a few years ago I discovered Black Solve from DGW and seldom use anything else these days.  I like Hoppes #9 Plus, too.  The black Solve is water based, cheap and I can do a LOT of shooting before (or without) swabbing the bore.  I use BS for all reloads, especially while hunting, as loading rod pressure doesn't increase with each shot.  I never leave a wet patch in the bore for too long or over night as they will dry out.  If I think the rifle will stay loaded a while I use Crisco, anyway.  My first patch is ALWAYS lubed with Crisco with wet patches after that.  This has worked well for me, at any rate.   ;D

Black Solve from DGW.

This Black Solve had originally been made by a little machine shop.  I think the name was something like Chopee.  The phonetic spelling here.

Then the couple retired and DGW picked up on it.  But it is not the same as the original stuff.  The original srtuff might be described as a tallow amine soap.  Has other industrial applications.

Then DGW went to something that sure looks like Simple Green.

E. Ogre

Offline hanshi

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2009, 01:01:51 AM »
I really have no idea what BS is but it makes over a quart of fluid when mixed with water per directions.  It does not suds up any so it can't be a "soap" in the usual sense.  I thought maybe a type of detergent but that seems way off base.  At any rate I'm pleased with it as patch lube and bp disolver.     
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Frank

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2009, 01:11:37 AM »
More trouble than it's worth!!

roundball

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2009, 03:06:07 AM »
Soapy HOT water to clean

I've only been using it for 18 years and with my bores still looking factory new I guess I'll stay with it.

In addition to steaming hot water & a squirt of dishwashing detergent being an outstanding cleaning solution in the general sense (ie: dishwashers) it is particularly good for keeping bore butter from building up. If I think of bore butter build up being like dried sticky egg yoke on a breakfast plate...if I hold the breakfast plate under a cold water faucet, nothing happens to the egg residue.....but if I hold that plate under steaming hot water, in just a couple seconds the egg residue melts and slides right off the plate...I think that's the effect it has on any film of bore butter that might be in a barrel.

Daryl

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2009, 03:14:00 AM »
LB - Just why the beeswax/vaseline works, I don't know.  With Vaseline being a petroleum product, or distillate (maybe that's the reason) you'd not think it would soften BPowder fouling, but it does, at least at down to 50/50 mix, which is fairly hard. I use 60/40 for the bullet guns and it seems to work as well as any of the commercial BP lube products - so far, and in my guns. I'll be trying beeswax/olive oil as I've got a bunch of sheets make for cookies for the Sharps. I tried the olive oil/beeswax in a soft mix for lubing some slugs for the Musketoon's initial test at the range and that worked well. At no time did I have to wipe the bore - The rifling is only .003" deep at the muzzle and with the .574" bore, the .562" ball and a .0215" denim patch might seem too thick. Far from that as it was easy loading all day, even after shooting off 25 slugs. The accuracy with the slugs and with round balls was excellent- so the thin bullet lube did it's job on fouling.  I was shooting up to 100gr. 2F with both slugs and round ball & if there was going to be a fouling problem, it would have been with the heavier loads.  Next time out, I'll put it through the ringer with some 120 to 140gr. loads, slugs and round balls for some 100 and 200 yard shooting - if the target stands are out from underneath the snow, that is.

It is possible, that the vaseline is 'distilled', it is synthesized, which actually changes the molecular properties and the heated mix with beeswax is the final 'straw' for the petroleum parts that don't mix. As you can tell, I know nothing of what I am speaking here, just that that formula works well - in bullet guns.  I' haven't tried it think enough for a patch lube and it would get hard, I'd think, at our low temps.

I think I'd lean towards using Track's mink oil or Dan's neestfoot oil for a patch lube in cold weather- thankfully, that's gone for a period of time, now.  The snow pile in front of the house is down to about 7' now. I guess Spring is here.

Anyone know what the ingredients of Shenandoah Valley Lube is the same as LHV (original) or the changed formula of LHV.  Both worked well in my .45.  It was Ox Yoke's version that started me crowing about how good it was. The original formula was just a bit better, maybe, not really noticeable here in our average climate.  the fouling around the breech is dry and crystal white much more often than damp and black, which is rare this year. It's staying fairly dry, even when it's snowing - like the 6" we got yesterday.

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2009, 04:23:10 AM »
Daryl,

Vaseline is simply petroleum jelly that comes out of "paraffinic" crude oil stocks.

When they first started drilling for oil in Pennsylvania and New York the pipes would become clogged by the petroleum jelly building up in the pipes.  At first it was considered to be an annoying expense and waste product.

Vaseline is simply petroleum jelly that has the color removed.  Directly from the crude oil it is dark and color and known as Cosmoline.

E. Ogre

mike e

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2009, 05:11:56 AM »
Mad Monk, is that the same thing as petroleum wax as in a wax toilet ring? I came home and found my wife had brought home a new toilet ring(guess what I'll be doing tomorrow?). It looks like bees wax but a search found that it is petroleum wax. May be the next great hunting lube! ???

roundball

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2009, 05:42:55 AM »
Toilet rings are synthetic...there aren't enough bees in the world to make that much beeswax  ;D

J.D.

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2009, 06:31:05 AM »
LB - Just why the beeswax/vaseline works, I don't know.  With Vaseline being a petroleum product, or distillate (maybe that's the reason) you'd not think it would soften BPowder fouling, but it does, at least at down to 50/50 mix, which is fairly hard.

Aren't beeswax and vaseline two of the primary ingredients in SPG lube?
I saw the formula when it was nothing more than a home made BPC bullet lube that was sometimes used as  a patch lube for PRB.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2009, 04:37:50 PM »
LB - Just why the beeswax/vaseline works, I don't know.  With Vaseline being a petroleum product, or distillate (maybe that's the reason) you'd not think it would soften BPowder fouling, but it does, at least at down to 50/50 mix, which is fairly hard.

Aren't beeswax and vaseline two of the primary ingredients in SPG lube?
I saw the formula when it was nothing more than a home made BPC bullet lube that was sometimes used as  a patch lube for PRB.

There has been a lot of speculation concerning SPG lube.
You need to remember that BPCRs are not MLs.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Daryl

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2009, 06:39:12 PM »
OK- since vaseline IS Petroleum Jelly - why does it work with BP when 'mixed' with beeswax. Beeswax itself is not a lube or will not soften fouling by itself, and neither will normal petroleum's, ie: motor oil (mostly synthetic today).  Tried motor oil backint he 70's when it was petroleum and also tried smokeless lubes- none of these worked, yet petroleum jelly mixed with beeswax does - conundrum or what? eh?

Offline hanshi

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2009, 08:20:14 PM »
Yeah, Daryl, the bees wax (I used) mixed with Vaseline simply made it solid enough to put on Minnies and stay there without drying out as the "Wonder Lubes" are wont to do.  I used Vaseline mixed with Crisco for patches as it worked for me and was the right consistency.   The Vaseline, as you stated, does soften fouling much like Crisco.  I think that's the reason the Vaseline/beeswax worked so well on minnies.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

beleg2

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2009, 02:03:29 AM »
Mad Monk said:

The thing about Germany and the "micronizing" ingredient gave the show away.
Back in the late 1800's the Germans found that if they added a bit of a particular fossil wax to "macro-crystalline" paraffin wax it would become a micro-crystalline wax with a low melt point.  Most microcrystalline waxes have fairly high melt points which limits their use in a BP gun.  But convert the low melt point paraffin wax to a micro-crystalline wax and you can get it to work in a lube formula.

Where can I find more information about this?
Any commercial source for this fossil wax or a synthetic option?

Thanks
Martin

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2009, 03:34:15 AM »
Mad Monk said:

The thing about Germany and the "micronizing" ingredient gave the show away.
Back in the late 1800's the Germans found that if they added a bit of a particular fossil wax to "macro-crystalline" paraffin wax it would become a micro-crystalline wax with a low melt point.  Most microcrystalline waxes have fairly high melt points which limits their use in a BP gun.  But convert the low melt point paraffin wax to a micro-crystalline wax and you can get it to work in a lube formula.

Where can I find more information about this?
Any commercial source for this fossil wax or a synthetic option?

Thanks
Martin

Martin,

The fossil wax is Ozocerite.  In a refined form it is known as ceresine.  This ozocerite was once known as "mineral wax" but once they relaized it was petroleum in origin it was no longer called mineral wax.

Most of what had been used in Europe came out of Galicia in what is now modern Poland.  It was mined in other countries and here in the U.S. in Utah.  Sold as Utah Wax.

It is still available but I have no idea where one would buy small amounts of it.

The tech sources state that it is a type of paraffin wax with a melt point somewhat higher than regular paraffin wax.

E. Ogre

erdillonjr

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2009, 07:54:06 PM »
I believe it is the same stuff as Oxyoke lube. Sure smells the same.

Daryl

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2009, 05:12:57 PM »
Problem with smells, is they can make it smell like anything they want. It is an effective way to cover what's really in it.  Witness LehighValley Lube. Smells as if it's got Pine Sol in it. Well, when I mixed Pine Sol with anything, the mix turned milky, not clear like LHV.  I still like LHV but am out of it now and using different 'things'.  I've got an order locally for 2 litres of Hoppe's 9 Plus(I'm out of that now too), but so far have a blank on it due to the local's suppliers not having any, so it's an order off to Alta for some 9 Plus from Wholesale Sports - maybe.  It is a good 'prepared' patch lube, but since warm weather is upon us, spit works just fine - in everything.  I've enough Neetsfoot oil and Mink oil for any venture into the mosquito/black fly infested woods - as it that's going to happen any time soon before freezup again - say, next month by the looks of things right now? Just kidding - but -   it's snowing right now - 07:00, 19May. HA!

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2009, 05:57:14 PM »
Daryl,

Vaseline is simply petroleum jelly that comes out of "paraffinic" crude oil stocks.

When they first started drilling for oil in Pennsylvania and New York the pipes would become clogged by the petroleum jelly building up in the pipes.  At first it was considered to be an annoying expense and waste product.

Vaseline is simply petroleum jelly that has the color removed.  Directly from the crude oil it is dark and color and known as Cosmoline.

E. Ogre
I like that Corposwine description.   Thats filed in my memory bank/or blank!! ;)

Daryl

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2009, 09:11:18 PM »
11:10AM - and still snowing. Gotta like this May weather.

J.D.

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2009, 04:42:01 AM »
Eat your heart out, Roger. It's a balmy 70 degrees F, at dusk, with very low 40% humidity. A lovely day, it was.  ;D

eljeffo41

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2011, 04:14:52 AM »
I started using bore butter about 15 years ago,never had any problems.That being said, out here in Vegas it's a big deal when it gets anywhere near freezing!

Leatherbelly

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2011, 11:33:04 AM »
   It is scented axel grease.

Offline marcusb

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2011, 02:47:57 PM »
I started out on a TC hawken, Bore Butter and 100 grains of BP. How I was taught you have to do it.

Now I shoot a flinter, about 60 grains of BP and use deer fat for preservation and lubrication.
 
The deer fat works great and costs me nothing.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 02:50:02 PM by marcusb »

Daryl

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Re: What is TC Bore Butter?
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2011, 03:43:14 PM »
   It is scented axel grease.

Actually, I think Bore Butter is lip balm with wintergreen oil added for scent along with a die to make it yellow.  Also, like lip balm, it goes rock hard in the cooler weather.