Gravers

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You guys make me smile!

[Justin Urbantas]

I saw that Dave had that book for sale, but I was too late to jump on it. $120 US for a new one is a little more than I can afford right now.  I practiced a little yesterday, and ended up with this. I think I need to have a shorter heel. I used a square graver with a 50 degree face and 20 degree heel.




upload the pictures

[Jim Kibler]

I will second the vote for Glensteel gravers sold by GRS.  Well worth the small additional cost considering how long a graver lasts. 

Jim

[moleeyes36]

The NMLRA currently has John Schipper's book on sale for $99.95 https://nmlrashop-org.3dcartstores.com/Engraving-Historic-Firearms_p_11.html

Mole Eyes

[Justin Urbantas]

I will second the vote for Glensteel gravers sold by GRS.  Well worth the small additional cost considering how long a graver lasts. 

Jim

Which of the Glensteel gravers do you suggest? I imagine one of them would last for years

[smart dog]

Hi,
Justin, to start, you only need 3 gravers, all of which can be ground from 3/32" Glensteel, HSS, or Momax square blanks.  A small 90^o square graver, larger 110^o square graver, and a small flat graver will handle all of what you are likely to do. There is so much written over the years on this site about engraving and gravers, folks really should use the search tool. The other piece of the beginner's puzzle is learning to sharpen. If you cannot sharpen gravers properly and often, you will not be able to engrave.  To that end, the Lindsay sharpening templates and system is extremely valuable and will get you up and running faster than any other without spending a lot of money. 

dave

[Justin Urbantas]

Hi,
Justin, to start, you only need 3 gravers, all of which can be ground from 3/32" Glensteel, HSS, or Momax square blanks.  A small 90^o square graver, larger 110^o square graver, and a small flat graver will handle all of what you are likely to do. There is so much written over the years on this site about engraving and gravers, folks really should use the search tool. The other piece of the beginner's puzzle is learning to sharpen. If you cannot sharpen gravers properly and often, you will not be able to engrave.  To that end, the Lindsay sharpening templates and system is extremely valuable and will get you up and running faster than any other without spending a lot of money. 

dave

I have a few blanks here, and thanks to Jose Gordo I picked up a jig made by Dave Rase similar to this one and a diamond stone.


I am having the most difficulty finding a web page or picture of all the angles to put on the graver to make each style.
I did come across this one that shows a 90 and 120 degree layout. Is this the type you're referring to?
Thanks, Justin

[Mike Brooks]

If Taylor wouldn't have mentioned  Schippers I would have sworn it  was Shippers engraving.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Schippers has a style that involves only three elements:  the leaf, the tendril, and the vine.  His style is unmistakable, and has a form that really appeals to me.  But I will add - it is far more detailed and complicated than 99 % of engraving found on period North American guns.  But I enjoy it, and the results are most satisfying.
Justin, the advise regarding the sharpening system is a good one.  I have a GRS electric diamond hone with three diamond grit laps and a ceramic plate that uses diamond dust in alcohol at 2 microns.  Cost a fortune, but I use it only rarely.  I do most of my sharpening on my belt grinder and by eye.  A Japanese water stone and a leather strop finish the sharpening.  It doesn't use up a lot of time, but when I sharpen, I sharpen everything I have.

That tool holder is the one I have - sold by GRS.  It has a calibration in degrees on the disc that makes replication simple.  I use a 45 degree face and eye ball the rest.

[elkhorne]

Taylor,
I have a 3/8 piece of round cold rolled steel that I bored out for a GRS graver. I see most recommend aluminum for your handle. Is steel too heavy? Appreciate your perspective.
elkhorne

[dogcatcher]

I rigged up a deal that looks like this to get my 45 degree face.  I used pieces of maple, nothing fancy, the rod through the center, is a piece of 3/8" steel rod with a drilled hole in one end with a thumb screw to hold the graver.    I have another set for 15 degrees for my heel and another that allows me to cut the graver taper.   Once everything is set to the correct angles I make cheat tubes so that I can set it up quickly time after time.   All you need is scrap maple or any hardwood, a protractor and method to work the shape you want.  The maple drills and taps real easy and is pretty durable. 



The above is actually a faceting machine used by gemologists to cut the facets on gems.  The design is centuries old, so you are not stepping on any patent rights.  I never got around to it, but my long term plan was to switch out the graver holder with a 3/8 hexagon rod and use a thumb screw to hold it in place.  The reason for the hexagon was that a slight turn to the right or left would give me an angle for my graver's taper.   Kind of a built in indexing feature.  But health issues have put a stop to my making it. 

[Hungry Horse]

I am astounded at the complicated contraptions here for sharpening a graver for engraving longrifles. If you watch the Wallace Gusler, and Hershel House videos, you will see nice period correct engraving being done, with homemade gravers, sharpened by eye. Wallace states in his video that the degrees of angle aren’t crutial, that all you have to do is get close. Even Jack Brooks video doesn’t used fancy fixtures, even though he does use purchased gravers.
 Sometimes I think we get too involved with the tools, and gizmos, and forget we are trying to reproduce average quality production engraving, rather than something you would find at Tiffany and Co.

  Hungry Horse

[smart dog]

Hi Justin,
The simple Lindsay templates and sharpening system is much easier to use than the jig you bought.  Acer uses the Lindsay system in his class because it gets beginners beyond the sharpening hurdle faster than any other method out there.  When you practice, it is not wise to just doodle. Instead draw out designs, and then adopt a way to transfer those designs accurately to your metal.  Then cut.  By doing that you will learn to control your tools faster and with more skill. Good engraving requires a lot of practice but also real discipline to work effectively rather than waste time and effort.

dave

[45-110]

I too really like John Schippers work and style. his teaching method and now his book is a god send for us beginners. when I had one of his classes years back, he was able to talk, smoke a cigarette and engrave all at the same time and never miss a stroke! A true artist. His sharpening method was simple and fast......but it is his skill that I marvel over.
kw

[Chowmi]

Late to the game here, but another +1 for the Lindsay sharpening system.  Before buying that, my engraving looked like a 4 year old did it with a hammer and dull nail. 
Sharpening is so critical that after buying the system, my gravers were sharp and I could really start to learn. 
Norm