Help with research before a build/decision making process

[dwr435]

I have been searching forum after forum looking for information and opinions as I look at making a rifle from a kit sometime next year.  I would like to build one with my Dad, he loves making things and has a lot of hobbies.  I am not looking to start any arguments or offend anyone.  I want a "Hawken" style rifle but it does not have to be a perfect replica, period correct etc.  It will be used for hunting and hand on my wall hopefully.   I am not into reenacting or things like that, nothing against it, just not my thing.  So please don't take offense if some of my suggestions for my rifle would never have happened in history.  That all being said thank you for any information you can give me and your opinions are greatly appreciated, just do not want to start any issues.

Here is what i am looking for.
      I prefer to shot rifles left handed, i am right handed and can shoot just fine that way but like left handed better.
                  Should i go for a LH model, which would limit me to 1" breech, .58 cal max, mostly straight barrels.
                  What about getting a stock in right handed but getting the kit from a custom shop and requesting a RH stock but with everything behind the wrist made LH, would be an additional cost , but i could get a tapered barrel and go as high as .62.
                   How important is a tapered barrel for balance, accuracy, etc? 

       I started out wanting a .54 cal which is what led me to the "Hawken" style, but as i looked i began to think well why not a .58 or a .62.  I have my Grand Fathers .45 long rifle which is plenty for the deer around where i live.  But this rifle would be my only other BP for pretty much ever, so i would like it to be able to handle bigger game if i ever get the chance to hunt out west again.  I know .54 is more than plenty for the game here in NC, even the bear and hog we have with shot placement, but i want to drop what i shoot not look for it in the swamp.  But would a .62 damage to much meat with good shot placement, i dont think so but have never seen a whitetail hit with one.
                    I have contacted a few people who make round ball on the net and requested to buy an assortment of .54, .58, .62 cal round ball in as small a batch as i can so i can actually hold one of each to help with my decision.
                    I have read alot of formulas and ballistic info from folks on the forums, but nothing beats, i shot 36 whitetails with a .62 over the years, kind of experience, so opinions on caliber?

       I want to build something that my great grand kids will see on the wall and dream of the day that they would get to hunt with it, like i did when i saw my Great Grand fathers lever action for the first time.

     I was looking at the TOTW and and the Don Stith kits.  They seem to be the best reviewed on the different forums.  The Stith kit looks like the best quality for the money out there.  If you know of another kit i should consider please let me know.

     I have looked for books on the subject and can't find too many that are about the rifle and its workings.  The first book by Baird goes for over 100 bucks used every where i see it for sale which is ridiculous for a book.  He second is affordable but i haven't seen anything about how useful it is. and it says it is meant to be used as a companion to the first.  So any books or sources of information you can suggest is greatly appreciated.  I plan on ordering the large plans for the rifle they sell at TOTW and a set they sell at "The Hawken" shop so i have something i can look at and reference as i plan by eventual purchase.

    Thank you for taking the time to read all of this, and any info you can provide is greatly appreciated.

[pushboater]

Dwr435, welcome to the forum. This forum is mostly about American Longrifles, but Hawken style rifles are discussed occasionally.  As for caliber, .54 will drop anything on the North American continent and is probably the most popular caliber.  You do see .58 and .62 occasionally, but when you get into the larger calibers your ammunition choices drop considerably.  .62 cal is 20 Gauge and that's one big hunk of metal. You need to choose your caliber and what type of projectile you plan on using before you settle on a barrel.  Large round balls shoot better in a slow twist barrel, where as conical and sabots shoot better in faster twist barrels. A tapered barrel is definitely going to balance better than a straight sided barrel. A straight sided barrel will be heavier.  Some people prefer a straight sided barrel because they say they're able to hold on target a little steadier when shooting off hand.  If you're going to be hunting out west you're probably going to be taking longer shots and a lot of hunters use cross sticks for a steadier hold. With cross sticks balance isn't really an issue, but weight will be. Especially if you have to lug that thing up and down mountains. I'm no Hawken Expert, so I'll let someone else a lot more educated than myself on the subject chime in and give you their opinions. These guys are a wealth of information and are always ready to share their knowledge. Again, Welcome aboard!

Capt. David

[dwr435]

Thank you for the reply and welcome note.  I dont know if i will ever get a chance to go back out west but i figured its a one time gun for me so why not get something that could do it all.  Would be round ball shooting only. 

[axelp]

If this is going to be a one time gun and family heirloom, and a wall decoration for years and years, I would encourage you to get the best you can afford. I'd suggest Don Styth, http://www.donstith.com AND go with an historically correct kit. You will never be sorry. There is absolutely no drawback to staying within historical guidelines... Hawken style rifles are well documented... a historic gun will fulfill or surpass your listed requirements.

K

[ehoff]

Don't discount your local public library as a source for reference material. While they may not have the specific book you are looking for, they maybe able to get a copy through inter-library loan programs. One book you should consider buying is one on long rifle construction, this will answer a lot of questions. Good luck with you project.

[dwr435]

Thanks for the replys.  I haven't tried the library as it is really small, but didn't think about inter-library loan. I really like the reviews of the Don Stith kits and it doesn't seem all that expensive when compared to it's competition.  It will definitely be a one time gun, i don't have a huge need for one, it is a want to do thing.  Have something made by my dad, me and my son and daughter helping where they can.   Would a .62 be way overkill for east coast deer?  Or could it be loaded properly and with shot placement be just fine?

[Swampwalker]

Dwr, the last 3 deer I've killed have been with a .62 cal smoothbore using a .590" patched roundball.  All three deer dropped within 5 feet of where I shot them.  A shoulder shot will destroy a lot of meat, but a lung shot does the job and saves the shoulder.  A .58" would be a grood compromise, being plenty large for moose and elk, and not overkill for deer. 
For your rifle, if you choose a .58", I would recommend a tapered barrel, 1 1/8" breech to 1" at the muzzle, 32 to 34" long. 
Good luck on your project!

[axelp]

I have a .58 and love it. But a .54 would serve your purpose as well. A .62 rifle has been growing in popularity and I think it would be a fun gun. I'd go with a tapered barrel on all of these choices. Its historical, it improves the balance of the gun and it has an added cool factor that you will never regret.

Good luck!

K

[dwr435]

Thanks for all the replys and any more opinions are always welcome.  I managed to find a copy of the Baird book in like new condition for an excellent price today so have ordered it.  Also went ahead and ordered TOTW plan posters for the generic Hawken rifle and their Kit Carson rifle, at 6.50 each for the big blow out poster i grabbed them both.  Figured they would be good references and might look pretty cool hung up.  I doubt i will make much headway on caliber until i get a hold of a round ball for each so i can visualize for myself.  Recoil isn't a huge deal as i wouldn't be shooting it all the time or for extended number of shots per outing.  I am 6' 4" 220lbs iff that helps any with recommendations on sizing, weight issues.  Have a great day and again thanks for all the replys.

[axelp]

a big feller like you wont have any problem with any of your options.

[Joe S.]

You say Grand Daddy had a long rifle,you could also build yourself a hawken full stock.You can call Dick at pecatonica and he may even be able to do your stock the way you want it.He cuts a hawken full or half stock and has the rest of the parts as well,an option.

[Hadden West]

You can buy 58 balls cheaper and easier than 62. Track sells 62, but are a little pricey. I've had the hankering for a Hawken rifle, myself. I've missed a couple good deals and am thinking more and more about building a Don Stith kit. I don't believe the lock is included in the standard price, but I could be wrong. Also he has some barrel upgrades. I know Don, and he is very knowledgeable, when it comes to Hawkens.

Go big!!!

[WadePatton]

I vote 62 because you're a big guy and you can power it down and/or bark the whitetails (probably have the biggest balls in camp-as I do in here with only a 54).  Turn it up to your full-power, most-accurate hunting load for NA's biggest and toothiest.

And I would certainly chase the best/authentic parts and/or most experienced makers in the field.  You'll NEVER regret building/having one built that you don't have to apologize for.

But, you might come to regret any such shortcuts later, and life needs NO more regrets.  

[dwr435]

It ill be some time before i make a final decision as it always takes me a while when it comes to buying a new gun. 

i am definitely leaning hard towards the Stith kits, if i go RH, then a Kit Carson in .62.  But it will be a while before i will KNOW what i truly want.  Definitely want something that will be a wall hanger and deer dropper.  Thanks for all the replys so far i appreciate all the help.  He has a new lock for that model and you can upgrade to rice match barrels, which i definitely like. 

[rich pierce]

I'm a big baby with skinny arms and don't enjoy shooting a rifle with heavy recoil and a Hawken style butt plate.  Another possibility is an English style rifle.  No cheekpiece.  Get the stock made without the lock inlet.

[axelp]

I am partial to Smyth's Dimmick style rifle. Its a looker.

[Bob Roller]

I'm a big baby with skinny arms and don't enjoy shooting a rifle with heavy recoil and a Hawken style butt plate.  Another possibility is an English style rifle.  No cheekpiece.  Get the stock made without the lock inlet.

I have a friend that built a fine Hawken copy using the old Robideaux drawings and
his father said he wanted one but NO crescent butt plate. Visualize a Hawken with a shotgun
butt plate and there it is. A fine hunting or target rifle minus the discomfort of the crescent
butt plate.I would also use a "bar in wood" lock which is easier to inlet because there is no
bolster cut in the top of the lock plate.

Bob Roller

[dwr435]

Thanks for all the replys, giving me lots to think about, which is what i wanted.  I want to wind up with what i always wanted before i knew it, so to speak.  I have been looking for "Bar in the wood" locks on line to do some more research but there is not a lot about them, and i cant find anyone who sells one, under bar in the wood, Charles Moore isolated side lock, Charles Moore bar in the wood side lock, or just a plain isolated side like, if you can point me in the right direction i would greatly appreciate it.  My like new copy of Bairds Hawken book will be here Friday so that should give me some things to look over.  Thanks again, have a great day.

[Bob Roller]

Thanks for all the replys, giving me lots to think about, which is what i wanted.  I want to wind up with what i always wanted before i knew it, so to speak.  I have been looking for "Bar in the wood" locks on line to do some more research but there is not a lot about them, and i cant find anyone who sells one, under bar in the wood, Charles Moore isolated side lock, Charles Moore bar in the wood side lock, or just a plain isolated side like, if you can point me in the right direction i would greatly appreciate it.  My like new copy of Bairds Hawken book will be here Friday so that should give me some things to look over.  Thanks again, have a great day.

I have a bar in wood lock started and had forgotten about it. The man I was going to make
it for found out my locks aren't cheap and decoded against it. I am NOT trying set up a lock
job/sale here in case anyone is wondering. If I hadn't remembered it I'd never have mentioned
it. I will finish it for $170 which includes shipping and the only casting is the hammer.

Bob Roller

[Dale Campbell]

DWR, you take that deal.

[Daryl]

Shotgun butts make shooting the big bores easy.

My offhand match rifle, a 14 bore (.69") however I will admit I have never fired many more than 100 shots in a day's shooting!

[dwr435]

Thanks for all the info, and help everyone.  Can't wait for my plans and books to get here to do more research.  Thanks for all the ideas, had not thought about a Dimick Style plains rifle.  

I like the idea of the shotgun style butt, but i also love the look of the curved but as well.  

All opinions still welcome.

Thanks soo much for all the help

[Daryl]

Heavy kickers are generally not a lot of fun with hooked butt plates.

[dwr435]

Thanks for the pics, beautiful rifle

[axelp]

If you go with a crescent butt config, go with a lighter caliber-- as in 54. If you go with a heavy caliber, go with a shotgun butt plate you will be glad you did--or your shoulder will anyway.