Author Topic: Hard lead (Read 10726 times)

kudu · « **on:** September 14, 2016, 08:23:59 PM »

So I have the option for a bunch of "linotype" free.
Is it any good for roundballs?
Ive been using pure soft lead and was wondering about this stuff its all in nice clean Ingots.
I can't imagine it would hurt the inside of a gun barrel?
but it is noticeably harder than pure lead.
I dont want to take it, if its bad for my barrel.

hanshi · « **Reply #1 on:** September 14, 2016, 08:37:37 PM »

I'd take all the linotype I could get my hands on. Instead of wasting it on rifle balls, mix just some of it with pure lead for something akin to WW metal. The ball will be harder and penetrate better but won't be like steel ball barrings. I shoot WW ball out of my smoothbore and prefer it to soft lead in that gun. And while I've shot WW ball for a couple of rifles - with very good success, I might add - I still prefer soft lead for the rifles. Harder (not "hard") lead works well in small caliber rifles as one doesn't want or need expansion on rabbits and squirrels.

kudu · « **Reply #2 on:** September 14, 2016, 10:32:50 PM »

I think the hard lead will shoot in a rifle but suspect that the hardness will make it harder to get a good "seal"
this stuff aint going to conform to anything. and would need to be under bore size and use a thick patch to stop gas blow- by.

Its hard stuff.

maybe a folwer/ smooth rifle it would be ok? but I dont even own one?

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #3 on:** September 14, 2016, 10:41:16 PM »

Works great in extremely high velocity modern cartridge loads. Too hard for ML RB in my opinion. I have tried WW in my early days with exceptionally poor results....this is when I could still see and shoot well. WW never worked well in my smooth bores either, of course I expected them to shoot as well as a rifle and the WW ball just didn't fly as well as a pure lead RB...at least for me anyway.

axelp · « **Reply #4 on:** September 14, 2016, 10:41:30 PM »

For what its worth, I live and hunt in California where we have a lead ban for all hunting-- both ball and shot... (target shooting we can use lead).

I have experimented with harder than lead projectiles a bit. Those ml hunters with fast twist barrels predominantly use all copper conical bullets with plastic sabots etc. and they don't harm the barrels as far as I know.. As a traditional slow twist patched roundball shooter, I have a couple options I use that are quite a bit harder than linotype lead ---and they don't harm the barrels of my rifle or smoothbore either.

I am pretty confident that linotype lead will not harm a barrel.

As for accuracy? well... lets just say I can achieve ok hunting accuracy with harder than lead projectiles at shorter than 100 yard ranges, but for target shooting? harder than lead is not very good.

This has been my experiences. Others might have experienced other results.

patkinson · « **Reply #5 on:** September 15, 2016, 02:38:05 AM »

I have shot muzzleloaders for over 40 years and competitively at Friendship for 20 years. To get the best accuracy out of a rifled muzzleloader pure lead is an absolute , especially if using an oversize ball. Buy a good lead tester and be careful where you buy your lead. Phil

bkb · « **Reply #6 on:** September 15, 2016, 01:56:54 PM »

on the days that I'm bored and just want to burn some powder I'll use WW but, for hunting or serious target shooting I use pure lead.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 15, 2016, 11:32:12 PM »

It is not usefull in a rifled ML. It won't hurt the barrel. You may stick the ball while loading. It is very hard.

It is a eutectic blend of lead, antimony and tin. Lots of tin. It make the best CF rifle bullets. It casts at a very low temperature. The bulelts look like shiney jewels when they conm out of the mold. You can shoot them up to 2500+ FPS.

I've cast nose caps from it. It worked just like pewter.

If the price is fair I'd buy it. I once bougt a bunch from a print shop. So much that is bottomed out the rear suspension on my car.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #8 on:** September 16, 2016, 01:24:28 AM »

Modern printing outfits don't use it anymore. So it it in LIMITED!!!! Supply. It is the bomb for black powder cartridge rifle bullets, and isn't worth a darn for round balls. It casts up a few thousandths larger than pure lead, so if you are one of those animated lawn knomes that uses a little mallet to load your blunderbuss you probably won't get the ball down onto the powder without a hydraulic press. Trade it to somebody that will appreciate it.

Hungry Horse

axelp · « **Reply #9 on:** September 16, 2016, 01:50:54 AM »

I think no less than 16:1 ratio of pure lead to tin is what the BPCR guys use in their Sharps and Highwalls. Not sure what the ratio is for most linotype metal.

My Dad used to reload modern centerfire and always added a little linotype to his pure lead when casting bullets.

K

B.Habermehl · « **Reply #10 on:** September 17, 2016, 06:29:15 PM »

Kudu, if I were you I would take the alloy and work a trade with some one else for some pure lead. Linotype and monotype are rather prized by shooters of other types of cast bullets. BJH

hanshi · « **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2016, 10:56:00 PM »

I did that very thing several years ago. I had quite a few pounds of linotype and traded it for 145 pounds of soft lead.

WadePatton · « **Reply #12 on:** September 17, 2016, 11:38:46 PM »

I have some fancy hard lead bullets left over from the old days. Not really enough to re-sell, but probably enough for a few nosecaps for sure.

Just haven't done it yet.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #13 on:** September 18, 2016, 06:20:31 AM »

I had over aton of it and sold it to the center fire guys. It was so hard it was hard to cut the spru's when casting and even the center fire guys blended it off.

Keb · « **Reply #14 on:** September 19, 2016, 03:26:47 PM »

Don't hold my feet to the fire but I've always heard that hard lead (wheel weights, etc.) will bounce back at you when shooting metal "clanger" targets. I'm sure we've all heard of someone being hit by a ricocheting ball on a woods walk. The people that set up the targets are usually blamed but the incidents I've seen always involved wheel weight balls. I know a few people that swear by hard balls for accuracy in smoothbores but I'm not one of them. I don't live in California nor do I plan to any time soon so I will continue to use pure lead, thank you very much.
I'm not an expert on anything but if we are shooting together on a woodswalk please let me know if you are using wheel weight balls. I'll just sit that one out until you're out of the woods. Now hunting is a different story. (IMHO)

hanshi · « **Reply #15 on:** September 19, 2016, 10:34:52 PM »

I've always had WW and harder ball flatten on steel targets even at pistol velocities. It might also make a difference with the type of steel the target is made from.

axelp · « **Reply #16 on:** September 20, 2016, 05:08:30 PM »

I would not shoot any hard, non-lead projectile option at a steel gong. I have dropped them onto a tile floor and have seen them bounce... no thank you.

Daryl · « **Reply #17 on:** September 20, 2016, 06:12:03 PM »

Linotype bullets shatter into dust when striking steel - as well, Linotype also can shatter in animals
& is thus not good for hunting bullets, either. They do not rebound from steel- they disintegrate/shatter/scatter. WW alloys or other alloys may rebound. Lyno - not so.
Linotype is normally 22 brinel- re-used Linotype about 21. Pure lead is 5- clamp-on lead alloy wheel weights is 9 to 13, depending. Canadian WW are harder than US wheel weights - it seems.
The various mixes of tin and pure lead run 10:1, 16:1, 20:1 30:1 and 40:1. 10:1 will normally run about brinel 16. The other tin/lead mixes, 20:1, etc, are quite a bit softer and used mostly in Black Powder ctg guns.

Daryl · « **Reply #18 on:** September 21, 2016, 03:44:34 AM »

Further note - WW balls are rather hard on steel targets, in that over time, they make holes in the steel, especially if the steel is only 1/4" to 3/8" thick. 1/2" seems rather resilient.

Steel gongs should be hung on an angle so any deflection of the ball or fragments is into the ground, rather than to the sides or possibly back to the shooting line. To do this, the chain attachment rings or posts should be a few inches down from the top surface, and on the back of the gong - 2 chains works best.
Do not shoot at rail road rails - the curvature from the base to the top of the rail will sometimes return pure lead balls, but will return WW balls - "SOMEWHERE TO THE FIRING LINE" almost every time. Being hit by a rebounding WW ball form a rail 100yards way, in the throat, that causes bleeding tends to make one a little more cautious - do wear eye protection & beware!
REAL Linotype - not a problem - particles & dust due to it's brittleness. Hardened WW alloys - dangerous just as straight WW are - due to being tougher and not brittle.

DICKH · « **Reply #19 on:** September 21, 2016, 10:27:16 PM »

In the May 2007 issue of MuzzleBlasts the Bevel Brothers had a piece where they
tested hard lead. They found with the right patch and ball combination hard lead
balls shot just as accurately as soft lead balls.

bob in the woods · « **Reply #20 on:** September 22, 2016, 12:14:44 AM »

One thing I really need to mention is that the lower the velocity, the more chance of bouncing back. i.e. as in pistol type loads. A friend fired a .50 cal flintlock with about 40 gr of 3 F at a target pinned to a beech tree stump
The ball bounced right back and walked him in the chest. You could see the imprint of the ball on the stump.
Didn't break skin, but really really hurt

Daryl · « **Reply #21 on:** September 22, 2016, 03:19:34 AM »

I was going to say that is why I never use squib loads, Bob, but that isn't quite true.

I dud use the tiny charge of 30gr. of 3F with a patched ball in my .69 rifle for bunnies. Buddy Keith was loading 40 in his .75 rifle. After the pow - there would be a crunch/type crackling as the bones in the bunnies crunched under the 480 and 600gr. bullet impacts. No bounces were observed.

axelp · « **Reply #22 on:** September 22, 2016, 05:32:29 AM »

I found in my testing of ITX non-lead roundball that it had significantly deeper penetration compared to plain lead roundball. My test was shooting into wet newspaper taped together. It out performed lead in that respect. I think they actually might move faster than lead? They probably lose speed quicker due to being lighter.

BUT against a harder surface, (ITX anyway) is liable to bounce. I don't think bismuth tin would bounce much, as it is closer to lead in its make up. Also it is brittle enough to shatter before it would bounce I think so anyway.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #23 on:** September 22, 2016, 06:41:47 PM »

Steel targets that do not move, Can return your bullet to you. This also goes for movable targets that are overly heavy, and suspended from a chain, that twists and redirects the bullet. Harder bullets are indeed harder on steel targets, and more likely change direction on impact, since they don't flatten out like a pure lead bullet.
Years ago at a rendezvous shooting station featuring a fifty yard shot at a small anvil, welded to a chain, a shooter shot at the target, and when he hit it, the bullet returned to the firing line. A young woman was standing next to him, and slightly behind him. It was a scalding hot day, and she was wearing a floor length prairie dress. Thank God she had her legs wide apart in an effort to get a little cool breeze up under the dress. The returning bullet went through both sides of the dress, and kicked up dirt on th hillside behind her. This memory has influenced every metal target I had installed since. I was standing on the other side of the shooter.

Hungry Horse

Old Ford2 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 23, 2016, 09:35:28 PM »

Hi Guys,
Most single shot cartridge shooters will gladly trade their first son-in-law even weight for the linotype lead.
Maybe even-even for pure lead if they have it.
Sooo if you can get a ton of linotype lead......get it! Trade it at scrap metal dealers or cartridge shooters.
Pure lead is getting harder and harder to get. Wheel weight lead is going the way of the dinosaur, as the weights are being replaced with some weird metal or steel.

Lead shielding is being replaced with plastic, lead pipe is as rare as gold.
Fred

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Author Topic: Hard lead (Read 10726 times)

patkinson

bkb

DICKH