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Author Topic: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?  (Read 5715 times)

Offline hatman

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At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« on: September 22, 2016, 08:16:18 AM »
Just a theoretical question I was thinking about today at the range:
How far away would a patched ball have to be away from the powder before a serious/dangerous incident ensue?
Assume for the sake of argument it's a 50 cal with 70gr 3F.


« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 06:06:10 PM by hatman »
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2016, 02:30:47 PM »
Good golly, I wouldn't use those two words together on the internet  these days....

Having said that I have saw people shoot short started balls with no problem and no bulge. I have seen others do the same and bulge the barrel where the ball had set. I also had a customer bulge one in the middle but that might have had something to do with double balling...can't remember. Actually, I don't think there is anyway to know for sure how far you can go with out actually experimenting, and I don't think I'd volunteer to be around for that. ;)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 08:31:37 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2016, 02:52:38 PM »
Methinks one of the biggest variables is going to be how tight the prb combo is in the application.

but yeah, not good words to use together because that's how they filter the internet, key words and phrases.  
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 08:31:48 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Offline hatman

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2016, 06:05:30 PM »
Quote from: Mike Brooks on September 22, 2016, 02:30:47 PM
Good golly, I wouldn't use those two words together on the internet  these days....

Having said that I have saw people shoot short started balls with no problem and no bulge. I have seen others do the same and bulge the barrel where the ball had set. I also had a customer bulge one in the middle but that might have had something to do with double balling...can't remember. Actually, I don't think there is anyway to know for sure how far you can go with out actually experimenting, and I don't think I'd volunteer to be around for that. ;)

OK thanks Mike.  I don't intend to experiment either.   ;)

Yeah, bad choice of words in the title.  I changed it.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 08:32:00 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Offline hatman

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2016, 06:05:52 PM »
Quote from: hatman on September 22, 2016, 08:16:18 AM
Just a theoretical question I was thinking about today at the range:
How far away would a patched ball have to be away from the powder before a serious/dangerous incident ensue?
Assume for the sake of argument it's a 50 cal with 70gr 3F.



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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2016, 06:50:28 PM »
There is a u tube video on exactly that. But can't remember which title it was under. Gettin old.
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2016, 07:08:50 PM »
You do not want to be there when it happens.  If you do not seat the ball on the powder - if you leave an air space between pwoder and patched ball - this will happen!

This Hawken rifle was destroyed at a rendezvous in McKenzie BC in the mid 80's.  The last event of the day was a stake cut...a 2 x 4 with two lines across 6" apart.  First one to cut the board off wins.  In this case, the shooter loaded his Hawken rifle (of my manufacture) with powder and patched .54 cal ball, and then loaded another on top...just another ball.  The air between the two balls would not let the second ball seat against the first, and upon firing, the rifle exploded.  We never found the hammer.  The lock plate was bent in two.  All shooting ended for the day right then, as we attempted to figure it all out.  No one was injured, but only by God's Grace.

BE SURE YOUR BALL IS SEATED FIRMLY ON THE CHARGE.
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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2016, 08:38:27 PM »
I edited all the replies that still contained those 2 words in the title.  ;)

-Ron
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2016, 11:05:09 PM »
Quote from: D. Taylor Sapergia on September 22, 2016, 07:08:50 PM
You do not want to be there when it happens.  If you do not seat the ball on the powder - if you leave an air space between pwoder and patched ball - this will happen!

This Hawken rifle was destroyed at a rendezvous in McKenzie BC in the mid 80's.  The last event of the day was a stake cut...a 2 x 4 with two lines across 6" apart.  First one to cut the board off wins.  In this case, the shooter loaded his Hawken rifle (of my manufacture) with powder and patched .54 cal ball, and then loaded another on top...just another ball.  The air between the two balls would not let the second ball seat against the first, and upon firing, the rifle exploded.  We never found the hammer.  The lock plate was bent in two.  All shooting ended for the day right then, as we attempted to figure it all out.  No one was injured, but only by God's Grace.

BE SURE YOUR BALL IS SEATED FIRMLY ON THE CHARGE.
That looks EXACTLY like the Hawkins rifle I blew up in the mid 80-'s Mine was a  flint, 1" douglas barrel, 80gr 3fff and two patched balls. I had short started the last ball and didn't ram it home (Yaking and had a brain @$#%, never intended the second ball anyway) . Well, That particular blown up Hawken in the picture was much nicer than my Hawkins. ;) But, the blow up produced exactly the same results. Never found the top flat. All I got was a singed eyebrow. I highly recommend seating the ball on the powder and NO bore obstructions!
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2016, 05:48:07 AM »
Who made the barrel? That lock MIGHT be one of mine but I am only looking at the top of the bridle and sear spring.
If that is my lock the guarantee is no long valid.

Bob Roller
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 03:51:32 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 02:53:59 PM »
Again,WHO made that barrel and has anyone made a test with a barrel made from mill certified gun barrel steel
by short loading a ball over a moderate charge of black powder?

Bob Roller
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2016, 06:03:56 PM »
Mine was a Douglas .50 1" straight. My load may have been powder, patch seated ball followed by powder, patched and short started ball. The short started ball was still in the barrel, hadn't moved.
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Offline Old Ford2

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2016, 09:41:25 PM »
"At what point does a barrel become dangerous?"
When you're looking down the dangerous end! And your ex is holding the other end!  ;D
Fred
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 03:05:52 PM by Old Ford2 »
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2016, 02:22:55 AM »
In the case I posted above, I can't remember for certain who made the barrel, but it was likely a GRRW .54 cal x 1" parallel octagonal barrel.  I made the breech plug and standing breech tang, and the lock.  I had a brand new set of Roubideaux's plans and was using the info from them for the parts.  I made the triggers too.  All this was hack-saw and file work.  It broke my heart to see my creation destroyed, but I was thankful no one was injured.  I know it was a double ball load, and only one of them was seated.
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2016, 03:20:51 AM »
Quote from: Bob Roller on September 23, 2016, 02:53:59 PM
Again,WHO made that barrel and has anyone made a test with a barrel made from mill certified gun barrel steel
by short loading a ball over a moderate charge of black powder?

Bob Roller

Its a classic brittle failure. Note the lack of significant bulging.
Dan
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2016, 03:21:59 AM »
Quote from: hatman on September 22, 2016, 08:16:18 AM
Just a theoretical question I was thinking about today at the range:
How far away would a patched ball have to be away from the powder before a serious/dangerous incident ensue?
Assume for the sake of argument it's a 50 cal with 70gr 3F.




More than 2".

Dan
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: At what point does the barrel become dangerous?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2016, 03:27:30 AM »
Quote from: Dphariss on September 25, 2016, 03:21:59 AM


More than 2".

Dan

I take that back. A "best" iron barrel or a GB quality steel barrel yes. Others?
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