Author Topic: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures  (Read 5585 times)

tgraytn

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I will begin by reaffirming that this is my first build so I am "wet behind the ears" and "green & growing"...  

I have included several pictures below in order to document my questions:

1.  In my research, it appears that there is supposed to be a "slope" from the tang area down to the octagon on the barrel.  In other words, the wood at the end of the breach area should be "flush" with the side of the barrel.  If I am correct, it looks like when I remove enough wood in the stock that it will run into where the lock assembly goes and mess that up.  Hopefully what I just said will make sense and if not I will try to explain more.  Here are the pictures:





2.  Also notice that the lock assembly will not currently fit "tight" or snug next to the barrel.  The cock is currently next to the wood which is preventing it from fitting flush/snug.  It appears that I'm going to have to remove enough wood in this area in order for it to fit snug to the barrel.  Am I correct?  Here are more pics:





3.  Notice that the front of the lock assembly is already recessed into the wood while the back of the lock assembly is just barely recessed into the wood.  I thought the entire lock assembly was only supposed to fit slightly below the wood.  Is this something that I am doing wrong?  







Again, I hope I made sense of the questions above and really appreciate your feedback!  I just want to be sure before I dive in and start removing wood.

Thanks again!!

Tom
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 12:09:48 AM by tgraytn »

Offline Keb

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2016, 01:57:48 AM »
To begin with, the bolster needs to be tight against the barrel (1st picture). It looks like the cock (hammer) is rubbing on the wood. I'd guess the lock will fit when this clearance problem is resolved.

Offline flehto

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2016, 02:13:00 AM »
Have you studied any of the rifle building "how to" books? That's where one should start.... a lot of your questions would be answered after studying some of these books.

Remove the cock when fitting the lock plate, remove the "innards" of the lock and the frizzen and frizzen spring....Fred
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 02:18:48 AM by flehto »

Offline PPatch

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2016, 02:39:13 AM »
About the lock position, the bolster, it must be brought in until it contacts the barrel. This means deepening the lock mortice (disassemble the lock, use only the lock plate for this, eventually you will add each piece to the lock and inlet that piece before adding the next piece). When you are done it will look something like this...



After your lock and its parts are fully inlet the next step is to define your lock panel on the lock side. Study pictures of originals to determine how the lock panel should look.

Once your lock panel is drawn on the wood you can begin to shape the top of the receiver area. Do some research and look at pictures of originals to learn how that slant from the tang to the top of the lock panel should look. Note that I said "slants from the tang to the top of the lock panel (on both sides, evenly). The slant does not follow that barrel flat.



Another view



Go slow, think ahead, research the old guys guns.

dave

ADD: here is a tutorial on lock inletting by Acer: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23601.0

« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 02:50:02 AM by PPatch »
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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 02:46:43 AM »
I will begin by reaffirming that this is my first build so I am "wet behind the ears" and "green & growing"...  

I have included several pictures below in order to document my questions:

1.  In my research, it appears that there is supposed to be a "slope" from the tang area down to the octagon on the barrel.  In other words, the wood at the end of the breach area should be "flush" with the side of the barrel.  If I am correct, it looks like when I remove enough wood in the stock that it will run into where the lock assembly goes and mess that up.  Hopefully what I just said will make sense and if not I will try to explain more.  Here are the pictures:

There are actually a couple ways to do this.  I would suggest that you use a gouge to cut a half moon down to the edge of the diagonal barrel flat.   It is a very subtle detail that should be approached slowly and carefully.    You definitely do this on the side plate side.  It is a little more difficult of the lock side.   I would suggest that you start on the lock side with a curved slope from the line of the breech down to the top of the lock fence.





2.  Also notice that the lock assembly will not currently fit "tight" or snug next to the barrel.  The cock is currently next to the wood which is preventing it from fitting flush/snug.  It appears that I'm going to have to remove enough wood in this area in order for it to fit snug to the barrel.  Am I correct?  Here are more pics:

You will need to cut out a groove under the cock to allow you to fully inlet the lock.   I use a gouge to mark ahead and behind the cock and then remove the wood between until the cock clears.    The lock bolster must fit tight against the barrel.





3.  Notice that the front of the lock assembly is already recessed into the wood while the back of the lock assembly is just barely recessed into the wood.  I thought the entire lock assembly was only supposed to fit slightly below the wood.  Is this something that I am doing wrong?  

Assuming a swamped barrel and an un-tapered lock panel,  you would expect the result you indicated.   When using a swamped barrel the lock plate kicks out at the rear.    That means that you need to plane the lock panels so that they taper in at the front and taper out at the rear.   The bottom of the bevel around the lock plate should be even with the wood all the way around.  







Again, I hope I made sense of the questions above and really appreciate your feedback!  I just want to be sure before I dive in and start removing wood.

Thanks again!!

Tom

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 02:46:58 AM »
First picture, my lock sits just like yours, too deep on the nose but the lock bolster is tight with the barrel.



Next picture, I am sanding the lock panels down to just above the bevels on the lock front and rear;



Drawing in the lock panel;



Rough shaping the lock panel, I leave it a little high just incase I ding it while I am doing the other gun work;



When I got my lock panel shaped and lowered to the lock bevel I didn't have any cock/wood interference.

Done shaping, like you I am a beginner.



Another thing; If you shape your lock panels ad still have wood interference you have two options, you can cut out a notch on your lock panel to give your cock free travel or you can gently slope the top of your lock panel toward the barrel flat to give you clearance. I like a gentle slope better than a notch as it is barely visible, the notch stands out a bit.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 02:54:02 AM by Eric Krewson »

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 02:57:12 AM »
Hi Joe,

First off, your inletting looks pretty good, no discernable gaps...  Here's my two cents...

The cock is, as you stated, hitting the stock.  The wood will most likely need to be removed from that area.  There's typically a couple ways you can address that, I like to relieve wood in that area with a round file, creating a "notch" for the cock.  Another way would be to create a square "notch" utilizing a flat chisel.  Just be careful not to remove too much wood.  Blacken the cock with whatever transfer medium you use, then remove wood accordingly...  Some locks are more problematic in that area than others.

The lock should be inlet up to the bevel on the lock plate.  Once the excess wood for the cock is addressed, the plate will fit down into the mortise.  If the lock plate is too deep into the stock, more wood will have to be removed from the panel.  If you get a good barrel to bolster fit, and the bevel is proud of the stock, file the bevel to meet the wood of the inlet.  Hope that makes sense...

As far as the "slope" meeting the barrel flats...  One way you can address that is by removing wood on the "slope" to meet the barrel flats with a flat chisel, or slightly curved gouge.  The wood is removed close to the breach area, only going back maybe 1/4" or so.  That area is then "blended" back so it's not an abrupt transition.  In essence, that area on the top flats is actually concave, but not much.  Draw the lock panel as you'd like it be, shape that area accordingly, then address the wood meeting the barrel flats.  Again, hope that sort of makes sense...

Many European rifles, and early Kentucky rifles, with big honkin' breaches were able to match the barrel flats without a lot of trouble.  As barrels became smaller, the method described above was often used.

This is a photo of a Stevensburg, VA school rifle that hopefully will give you an idea as to what I'm talking about.  Just keep in mind that various schools and builders addressed this aspect differently. 


Ed Wenger

tgraytn

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2016, 03:29:51 AM »
Thanks a lot to everyone who replied!!  I appreciate your feedback and I am back on track!!

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2016, 05:18:41 AM »
Hi Tom,

A search turned up this older thread, with many pictures and options.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=35422.0

-Ron
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 05:19:05 AM by Ky-Flinter »
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tgraytn

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2016, 05:49:32 AM »
Hi Tom,

A search turned up this older thread, with many pictures and options.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=35422.0

-Ron

Wow!!  That's great!!  Thanks a lot Ron!!

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 03:56:21 PM »
Hi Tom,

A search turned up this older thread, with many pictures and options.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=35422.0

-Ron

Ron,

I see a few requests in the excellent thread to which you linked us to make it a tutorial, which I think is a great suggestion.  I could not find it in the tutorials section, though I could have just missed it.  Did this become a tutorial?  If it didn't become a tutorial, could it be made one?  Thanks.

Mole Eyes
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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Shaping The Stock Around The Tang & Lock Assembly - With Pictures
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 05:08:59 PM »
The older thread referenced above has been moved to the Tutorial/Woodworking section.

-Ron
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 09:21:50 PM by Ky-Flinter »
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