Religious symbols

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Does anyone know if there were Christian symbols or perhaps more specifically Catholic symbols used to adorn American guns?

I suppose they would be rare indeed since the colonies were largely protestant - but I thought perhaps an example from Maryland or Rhode Island might have something recognizable as Catholic.  Or I would think that the French and Spanish guns to our north and south might have something. 

Or perhaps I am just ignorant of the symbolism that is commonly found on longrifles.  I would recognize the fish as being Christian, but the stars, eagles, C-scrolls, leafs, wheat, and guys-with-stocking-caps don't seem to say much to me.

No crosses? St. Hubert symbols? Mary?

[T*O*F]

French trade guns sometimes had trade silver crosses nailed to them.  The Cross of Lorraine comes to mind.

[bob in the woods]

Living here in Ontario, north of Kingston, I have never seen any "long rifles" other than those few brought by Loyalists . Most as in almost all the actual rifles here are from the 19th C.  Smoothbores are the common arm ..certainly in the "New France " era, and even after the British took over. These were predominately if not entirely imported arms. "Catholic" specific symbols on arms aren't something I've seen. Religious medals, trade silver, rosaries , crucifix etc were certainly common among the French. These could and were  fixed to arms, bags , clothing etc both for their decorative and symbolic power [ they were blessed by a priest ]

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The kit I am currently working on is a TVM flintlock but I didn't get a patchbox for it.  So now I am trying to figure out what to do with that big empty space on the right side of the gun.  I got something I like for behind the cheekpiece.  I went on Track of the Wolf's consignment page and all the flintlocks either have patchboxes or nothing at all on the right side of the butt.  I haven't figured out how to use this American Longrifles website to look at other people's work without it taking forever.

[Joe S.]

you could do a Google search on patch box images and go from there for ideas.

[Mike Brooks]

French trade guns sometimes had trade silver crosses nailed to them.  The Cross of Lorraine comes to mind.

I don't recall ever seeing an old french trade gun with a metallic cross on it. Repops yes, old guns no. Iwas wrong once in the past, so I guess anything is possible.....

[bob in the woods]

Mike, when I say "fixed" I didn't mean nailed. I've never seen one nailed to a gun. I saw one tied to a trigger guard, and one tied to a pouch. The crosses I seen are much smaller than what seems popular today, and the Catholic religeous medals are very small as well.

[WKevinD]

This is one I built for a local pastor

[axelp]

"The Great Awakening was an evangelical and revitalization movement that swept Protestant Europe and British America, and especially the American colonies in the 1730s and 1740s, leaving a permanent impact on American Protestantism. It resulted from powerful preaching that gave listeners a sense of deep personal revelation of their need of salvation by Jesus Christ. The Great Awakening pulled away from ritual, ceremony, sacramentalism, and hierarchy, and made Christianity intensely personal to the average person by fostering a deep sense of spiritual conviction and redemption, and by encouraging introspection and a commitment to a new standard of personal morality."

Then the second Great Awakening in the early 1800s followed that...

Would that have inspired religious decoration? I know Bible verses were inscribed on powder horns.... why not scratched on guns too? I doubt crosses or crucifix's were common because of their catholic connection.

[rich pierce]

There's a lot of freedom in making contemporary arms.  I like personal expression, especially when it is done in a way that fits well with the rest of the decoration on a contemporary piece.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Ken, your first paragraph is in quotation marks.  Was that from a book?

I find it curious that there aren't many symbols of a Catholic nature especially given Catholics' penchant for symbolism.  But since we largely emulate American guns and America was largely protestant at the time, it would make sense.

Crosses seem to be common to Christians as a whole, whereas crucifixes seem to be Catholic for whatever reason.  But why guns seem to have stars, crescent moons, and diamonds but no crosses - I find curious.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Rich.  Yes I think contemporary guns can be really well done so long as they don't show too much 21st century influence.

[greybeard]

INRI    was on the crucifix and i think it was J P Beck put it on the bottom  of the barrel on some
of his guns. I  roman times it translates to "Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews"
Ken Irish put it on a grand powder horn that he made for me.
     Bob]Because I am Canadian he also added a scrimshaw of a Beaver.

[Hungry Horse]

 I don't even think the fish inlays have any religious significance in early gun building. The fish symbol is only seen as a religious symbol in modern times. On the other hand I don't recall seeing a native decorated trade gun that didn't have a cross either carved into it, or rendered in tacks.

  Hungry Horse

[AeroE]

A man over near Truman Reservoir in Missouri built a neat 14 gauge shotgun with a scratch built Manton lock that had St. Hubertus' symbol on the barrel, but that gun has nothing in common with an antique but the lock and the general configuration of the stock.

That was his duck hunting gun.

[smart dog]

Hi,
You largely answered your own question.
"I find it curious that there aren't many symbols of a Catholic nature especially given Catholics' penchant for symbolism.  But since we largely emulate American guns and America was largely protestant at the time, it would make sense." 

Maryland had a significant practicing Catholic population but it was an exception.  When the rebellious colonies tried to entice Canadians to join them in 1776, they sent John Carroll from Maryland along with Ben Franklin and others.  Carroll was one of the few prominent practicing Catholics in the colonies and he was expected to appeal to the French Canadians.  The Congregationalists in New England also likely would not use Catholic symbols despite their proximity to French Canada.  You do find religious art dealing with saints, martyrs, and bible stories on European guns throughout the 1500s, 1600s, and 1700s.  However, you also see pornography, either overt or couched in Greek mythological stories in about equal measure to religion. 

dave

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

However, you also see pornography, either overt or couched in Greek mythological stories in about equal measure to religion.

"The more things change; the more they stay the same."  I'm thinking mud flaps and back windows of so many pick-up trucks. 

I supposed I did answer my own question.  But I don't get the opportunity to see very many guns so I thought maybe someone else knew of that rare Catholic gun from Maryland or something like that.  Or perhaps a gun or two from Canada, Florida, Louisiana.

Hungry Horse- The fish symbol in Christian art goes way back to antiquity.  As does the anchor and a few others.  Not sure about the Chi-Rho though (wait Wikipedia says chi-rho is very old, so it must be so).

[T*O*F]

I'm thinking the ones that I saw were in the Museum of the Fur Trade.  I wish Buck Connor would see this thread and respond.  He would know for sure.

[Daniel]

When the Jesuit priests got to the Mesquakie tribe and began to relate the Bible to them especially
The Cross of Christ the men painted their weapons with crosses . From "The Fox Wars".

[axelp]

I think the cross symbol (be it a crucifix, or an empty cross) as decoration was connected to Catholicism in the 18th C. I really do not see many Protestants at that time interested in emulating what was considered a Catholic practice.

I used to own a contemporary made long rifle of an early Lehigh style (made by Brent Gurtek) that had INRI engraved on the patchbox near the hinge as well as a stylized cross shape. It was really nice. The cross shape was made from rococo designs, and was subtle. The design elements reflected my own personal faith in Jesus Christ. It was a gentle personal reminder of who my "Boss" was when I carried it in the woods or at an event.

The quote I posted above was taken from a quick google search. I wanted to make sure I got the dates correct for the two Great Awakenings. The first Great Awakening was timely, and played a role in forming thought and actions in the American Revolution. The second Great Awakening played a similar role in the American Civil War-- it seems to me anyway. Aside from Christian symbols there are other symbols found on long rifles that can illustrate the inherent spiritualism--and also, superstitions or totems of good luck by mankind of all ages.

K

[pushboater]

I too have seen photographs of the INRI inscription on the bottom of a J.P. Beck rifle.

Capt. David

[smart dog]

Hi Black Jacque,
Not that this relates to original guns, but here is how I handled a cross symbol on a John Noll inspired rifle.  It was for a friend who is a very devout Christian (protestant).  The cross hatched area provided a nice surround for the oval space in which the cross was inlet.  The entire design focuses attention to it. I placed the cross above left of center in the space to give the impression that it is viewed from below.  I surprised my friend/client with the cross inlay and it brought tears to his eyes because he was so happy.  Made my day.

dave

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Perfect Smart Dog!  I am more interested in a contemporary rifle but I am leary that some symbols can draw too much attention to itself which distracts from the gun.  With the lack of examples it makes it difficult to draw inspiration.  However yours is nicely done and helps.   

[axelp]

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r559/KennyP491/patchbox_zps937af7f9.jpg

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I really appreciate the photobucket link Ken.  But I must have worded things poorly.  I am looking for examples of stocks without the patchbox.    Are there examples of a carved stock with no patchbox?