Persimmon wood for gun stocks?

[trentOH]

The only persimmon tree that I know of in my county appears to be dying. It's twin died about 4 years ago, and was cut up for firewood.

Does anyone have experience working with, or have seen persimmon used as a stock for a longrifle? I'd like to honor this tree which has provided me with snacks for so many years, by using it for something if it does indeed die.

If it is usable, should the tree be harvested before it dies, or can it be taken down after it dies? And about how long will the wood need to season before it is cut to try to find a gunstock in it? The tree is about 14"to 16" dbh.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

[pushboater]

Don't know about gun stock use but I do know it's related to Ebony. Sometimes called White Ebony. Very hard and used for golf club heads in the past. I've heard that it has a very high shrinkage rate when drying.

[sqrldog]

Trent
Persimmon has been used for at least one antique longrifle stock. A rifle built by Stofel Long maybe? Don't hold me to the name this is from memory which in my case is not much. I use persimmon in my turkey calls and actually have some blanks for use in rifles. I can almost assure you that it will split down the heart of the tree when drying and that it will warp. This means you need to cut the blank thicker than usual. Once dried it is very stable. It is a fairly dense wood that cuts clean and turns exceptionally well on a lathe. I think the rule of thumb is to allow a minimum of one year per inch of thicknes drying time in a dry environment.  I would cut the tree when the sap is down. Tim Cosby

[mtlonghunter]

Generally , hardwoods take about 1.5 to 2 years per inch to cure out depending on  storage climate and other humidity factors. Slow cures are best and will keep defects from developing further to surrounding areas. As far as when to cut , green wood is better to deal with in the sawing  process . You may end up with less defects from a live state than if you let it die and be subject to the elements for any period of time before you get around to felling it. The tree itself will dictate some of these issues, such as to how it's sawn and really how sound of a tree it was to begin with . If it dies, what caused this and will it effect the quality of the wood. Worms ,etc...there are original longrifles  of persimmon wood, not common and the one that's in Shumways book is hard to tell if it's worth using. Nice looking wood being fairly important and all. There has been a gun made of persimoon wood on the cla-blog some time back but I can't remember when. There are some things to consider if gunstocks are your prime objective. Stump cut vs slab cut, or possibly limb- down areas for best wrist orientation, , how low to cut the stump etc. If you do cut the tree be sure and end seal the boards/planks  to further cut down on defects.  Hope this helps . This could go on but that's the basics.  

[Maalsral]

Ian Pratt built a gun out of persimmon a few years ago for Art Riser.

[SR James]

I don't know how to copy the link but if you go to the Contemporary Longrifle forum on this site to the post "CLA Goodies Part One" there are several photos of my persimmon-stocked rifle I bought at the show in August.

[Mike Brooks]

I have never been able to get a plank dry straight enough to get a stock out of. Also, in my opinion, your log at 14"-16" is going to be a bit on the small side.

[art riser]

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2011/05/ian-pratt-for-art-riser.html

[oldtravler61]

That is one fine looking rifle. Wished they made a book with that many detailed pictures. At least I haven't found one. Yes I have been looking.
 Mike

[Daryl]

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2011/05/ian-pratt-for-art-riser.html

That would be cool (on the face) shooting in the winter time!

[Goo]

"Does anyone have experience working with, or have seen persimmon used as a stock for a longrifle? I'd like to honor this tree which has provided me with snacks for so many years, by using it for something if it does indeed die. "

I think you should do it you have enough experience already and most likely plenty of intuition to make up for where the former leaves off.   A couple of weeks ago I salvaged a couple pieces of "Sea Grape" from hurricane Matthew storm damage in WPB, FL. .     In my experience many new ideas are met by negativity then they catch on and become popular.

[okawbow]

I've used persimmon for bow handles and trim, as well as violin and guitar finger boards and fittings. It works and finishes well. I don't see why it wouldn't work well for a Longrifle stock as long as it was well seasoned.

[Stoner creek]

I have never been able to get a plank dry straight enough to get a stock out of. Also, in my opinion, your log at 14"-16" is going to be a bit on the small side.

Hey Mike, I have a good dry straight piece of persimmon that I can bring next trip to Iowa.

[David Rase]

I have never been able to get a plank dry straight enough to get a stock out of. Also, in my opinion, your log at 14"-16" is going to be a bit on the small side.

Hey Mike, I have a good dry straight piece of persimmon that I can bring next trip to Iowa.

Wayne,
If that is an extra stock, you can always ship it out west to me.  I am in the market for a blank or persimmon.  I talked with Nathan at the CLA show and he has a couple of blanks.  I just need to text or email him.
David

[Clark Badgett]

Is persimmon wood naturally dark like the pictures of that rifle?

[Daryl]

Don't know about gun stock use but I do know it's related to Ebony. Sometimes called White Ebony. Very hard and used for golf club heads in the past. I've heard that it has a very high shrinkage rate when drying.

Clark B - White Ebony? It appears to take a DARK stain very well.

[JB2]

if you do decide to use it, make sure to seal the end grain of all pieces AS SOON as you cut it, even before you start cutting it to shape.  Any sort of sealer will work, and many lumber processors use a wax or paraffin spray.  If the end grain dries too fast it will cause splits and cracks.

[WadePatton]

The only persimmon tree that I know of in my county appears to be dying. It's twin died about 4 years ago, and was cut up for firewood.

Does anyone have experience working with, or have seen persimmon used as a stock for a longrifle? I'd like to honor this tree which has provided me with snacks for so many years, by using it for something if it does indeed die.

If it is usable, should the tree be harvested before it dies, or can it be taken down after it dies? And about how long will the wood need to season before it is cut to try to find a gunstock in it? The tree is about 14"to 16" dbh.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

I understand you are only trying to preserve a bit of great tree.  That might be done in any sort of wooden product from said tree.  Get your blank extra long and thick for maximizing options with orientation and flaws and to reduce checking damage.  Otherwise it's not going to be crazy different than any other stock-wood. 

And yes, that's going to be difficult to get a good slab from at 16"  Maybe try to get some long sections and make a dozen ramrods from it, or inlays, or ball-starter knobs/shafts, or knife scales, shooting boxes, etc.

Here's why Persimmon, although it might be historically correct on a TN gun, has never been on my list of gunstock woods to utilize.  

I've yet to see a persimmon-stocked gun and said "Oh my look at that gorgeous wood".

I have said this for guns stocked in Maple, Ash, Cherry, and Walnut, but never Persimmon. So I have blanks in Ash, Cherry, and Walnut in the shop and plan to use plenty more Maple.

Be happy to have my perspective changed on the subject, but also my Persimmons grow very tall and very skinny on the ridge, none are big enough for stock wood.  Show me a pretty one.

[Jesse168]

If you can't get a piece big enough for a long rifle try for a pistol.