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Author Topic: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle  (Read 8019 times)

Offline Shreckmeister

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John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« on: October 25, 2016, 05:22:30 PM »
Rifle signed John Howe, St Johnsville NY

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« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 06:31:17 PM by Shreckmeister »
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Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2016, 07:07:47 PM »
(Edited) Is* the lock screwed to the breech plug at the front and then the wood at the rear? The side plate is just a decorative piece?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 12:56:23 AM by The Rambling Historian »
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I am the Lead Historian/Firearms Specialist at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own personal interests in muzzle loading and history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2016, 07:16:13 PM »
Very unique firearm for sure. Thanks for showing.
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2016, 09:48:14 PM »
Quote from: The Rambling Historian on October 25, 2016, 07:07:47 PM
It the lock screwed to the breech plug at the front and then the wood at the rear? The side plate is just a decorative piece?
   That's what I'm thinking as well.  I've never seen checking done in this manner.  There are a lot of unique features on this
rifle.  The pewter nosecap is also checkered. 
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2016, 12:57:18 AM »
Good looking rifle for sure. Any provenance with it?
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I am the Lead Historian/Firearms Specialist at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own personal interests in muzzle loading and history.
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Offline OLUT

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2016, 01:44:08 AM »
My opinion only, but anybody that used 11 brass screws to mount a false side plate was (is) anal retentive. From what I've seen of John Howe guns in Swinney's massive tome on NY State gunmakers and on the internet, they were rather common guns. This one looks to me to be "gussied up" with uniquely checkered areas and decorative pins that were added  at some later date.
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2016, 03:59:02 AM »
Quote from: The Rambling Historian on October 26, 2016, 12:57:18 AM
Good looking rifle for sure. Any provenance with it?
   No provenance known
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2016, 04:00:08 AM »
Quote from: OLUT on October 26, 2016, 01:44:08 AM
My opinion only, but anybody that used 11 brass screws to mount a false side plate was (is) anal retentive. From what I've seen of John Howe guns in Swinney's massive tome on NY State gunmakers and on the internet, they were rather common guns. This one looks to me to be "gussied up" with uniquely checkered areas and decorative pins that were added  at some later date.
  I wouldn't argue with that idea
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline JCKelly

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2016, 06:51:19 PM »
Swinney shows just one John Howe, though several Henry Howe rifles.

The "gussied up" stuff looks, to my eye anyway, like it was done by a skilled smith. Not some 20th century guy messing around. Those assorted decorations just don't look 20th century, again to my eye.
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Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 09:07:16 PM »
The German silver (I'm assuming) plates are what seem the most out of place. Especially the ones on the lock and bolster. The one on the lock kind of seems like it was placed there to cover up the lock marking.

Perhaps the rifle was dolled up as a presentation piece or a prize for an event.
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I am the Lead Historian/Firearms Specialist at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own personal interests in muzzle loading and history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 10:01:43 PM »
Quote from: JCKelly on October 26, 2016, 06:51:19 PM
Swinney shows just one John Howe, though several Henry Howe rifles.

The "gussied up" stuff looks, to my eye anyway, like it was done by a skilled smith. Not some 20th century guy messing around. Those assorted decorations just don't look 20th century, again to my eye.
   I agree the work was done by a professional, but let's not discount 20th century guys.  They could easily have done this work.
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 10:02:43 PM »
Quote from: The Rambling Historian on October 26, 2016, 09:07:16 PM
The German silver (I'm assuming) plates are what seem the most out of place. Especially the ones on the lock and bolster. The one on the lock kind of seems like it was placed there to cover up the lock marking.

Perhaps the rifle was dolled up as a presentation piece or a prize for an event.
   I think that's jumping to conclusions.  If presentation piece, there would have likely been some inscription.
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2016, 12:33:51 AM »
Speculation for sure. That is why I said perhaps.  ;)
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I am the Lead Historian/Firearms Specialist at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own personal interests in muzzle loading and history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2016, 05:14:02 AM »
I'm really not sure whether I think this rifle is interesting or horrible. Definitely unique.
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2016, 04:06:59 PM »
A bit of a mutt perhaps but far from horrible from what I see. It's nice to see something a little different every now and again.
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I am the Lead Historian/Firearms Specialist at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own personal interests in muzzle loading and history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Offline JCKelly

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2016, 12:00:49 AM »
Should Mr. Shreckmeister consider this rifle a Mutt, perhaps one might discuss a new kennel for it . . .
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Offline D. Buck Stopshere

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2016, 05:36:14 AM »
The name John Howe brings back memories. I had a lady come into my store with a double barrel gun about 15 years ago.
She said it had been in her family for four generations and the fifth generation had no interest. Lucky me.

It was stamped on the top rib, "John Howe, St Johnsville, NY". I believe it was called a "cape gun", one barrel was about 28 gauge
smoothbore and the other barrel was a .38 caliber rifle with a very fast twist, probably for conical balls. It had German-silver furniture and a
nice German-silver inlay in the cheek, and back-action locks. Mechanically, it was tight and functional, hardly any use.

I sold it about ten years ago to pay county property taxes, and have been chasing it for the past five years through two subsequent owners, both past. I hope it is still in NC. It was nothing to write home about but it was tight and worth shooting a bit. There's probably a FB group that exists for folks like me that sold guns they wish they hadn't and can't find the ones they sold. ::)  :-[
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2016, 06:59:16 PM »
Quote from: JCKelly on October 28, 2016, 12:00:49 AM
Should Mr. Shreckmeister consider this rifle a Mutt, perhaps one might discuss a new kennel for it . . .
   It's not mine.  If you are interested, I can put you in touch.
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Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Curt J

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Re: John Howe, St Johnsville NY rifle
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2016, 06:44:44 AM »
It is not that uncommon to find a fancy rifle by a maker who made predominantly plain guns. It was simply a matter of having a customer with deep pockets, and a desire to have a rifle that was fancier than the one belonging to his neighbor down the road. I'm inclined to think that this is original.
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