1:24 twist in .50 caliber

[bones92]

Would PRB be wildly inaccurate in a 1:24 twist barrel?   

I don't pay attention to modern muzzleloaders, so I have no idea what an ideal conical or saboted bullet would be for such a barrel (26.5" long).

[OldMtnMan]

Normally, a fast twist barrel is also a shallow groove barrel. That's not ideal for a PRB and usually takes a light load of powder to be accurate. However, I have heard of exceptions that can shoot a hunting load with pretty good accuracy.

It's designed to shoot any modern bullet and long (heavy) lead conicals.

[smylee grouch]

You could make that combo work or shoot ok but not with any decent hunting charges IMHO.

[HAWKEN]

bones,  The only way you will know, for sure, is to try it your self.  Start with a .490 ball and a 18-20 mil patch and 50 grains of 3fg, the increase by 5 grains until accuracy goes completely away............robin

[axelp]

You could experiment with conical bullets. check out the bullet configurations that are used in BPCR long range shooting. You might find a great paper-patched or grease grooved bullet that will shoot extremely accurate. And with a big .50 cal bullet, it would be a super big game gitter and long range target gun.

K

[Mike Brooks]

Antique German guns in the 18the century generally had 1 twist in the length of the barrel, so there has to be some combination of patch/ball/powder that will work. I recently had Hoyt make me a 25" swamped .58 barrel with a 1 in 34 twist that I hope to stock up and experiment with in the spring.

[Hungry Horse]

With pistol sized charges at close range it should shoot a round ball just fine. The fast twist barrels are usually best with a bullet rather than a round ball.

  Hungry Horse

[bones92]

Ok, this gives me something to think about. 

It has to do with a Pedersoli muzzleloader, of a design that is verboten on this forum, but it's actually a well made rifle with a heavy, tapered octagonal barrel.   I figured on selling it, but then curiosity kicked in and I began to wonder how it might shoot.  Clearly Pedersoli had the hunters in mind (conicals and sabots), but they could have done a 1:48 and found a happy medium between conicals and PRB.

[Bob Roller]

Would PRB be wildly inaccurate in a 1:24 twist barrel?   

I don't pay attention to modern muzzleloaders, so I have no idea what an ideal conical or saboted bullet would be for such a barrel (26.5" long).

I had a semi military Whitworth that I used a patched .445 round ball with 40 grains of DuPont 3fg.
This load was a favorite of the small grandchildren of a friend. It was accurate at 40 yards. The potent
load was 70 to 85 grains of 3fg and the old Sharps Bailey bullet which was Lyman #451112 and 485 grains.
The loading procedure for a RB in a fast twist is a rhyme "Charge it lightly,patch it tightly"It works!

Bob Roller

[bones92]

Thanks, Bob. 

[Maven]

You could make that combo work or shoot ok but not with any decent hunting charges IMHO.

My experience with a 1:28" .50cal. Green Mt. bbl. using FFg and a .490" patched RB confirms what smylee said.  At 50 yd., a 50gr. charge gave excellent groups, but they opened up some when I went to 60gr.  I'll freely admit, however, that others have reported excellent results with 70gr. charges.

[smylee grouch]

There are a lot of people who will tell you that those guns with a fast twist for caliber are a little more fussy about powder charge variations, that slight variations by only a small amount will open up your groups considerably. I shoot slow twist barrels and don't see much variation if I go over or under my best load charge weight.

[bones92]

I also suspect that the uniformity of the ball shape would have a significant impact on a fast twist patched round ball.

[Daryl]

If using conicals in a 24" twist .50 - bullets up to a bit over 600gr. will stabilize just fine - all the way to 1,000 meters.  I believe Taylor uses 91gr. Swiss 1 1/2F.

The 1,000meter 4'x8' buffalo is now an easy target for him using the rifle's metallic sights.

Yeah - it is hard to see, way out there in different light. With snow on the ground, it was easy, then the snow melted - now, almost impossible - but not for him.

[Mike Brooks]

Does that guy hold it still while Taylor shoots at it? I 'spose the other two just confirm the hits and misses.....

[bones92]

I would love to have a chance to shoot at a range like that someday.  Why not just put a slightly oversized and whitewashed plywood backer behind the buffalo?  Would make it much easier to see. 

[OldMtnMan]

Is the backhoe the hold over sight picture?

[Daryl]

Does that guy hold it still while Taylor shoots at it? I 'spose the other two just confirm the hits and misses.....

LOL

It now hangs on chains, from the crossbar between those 2, 10" steel posts. Hi shots are difficult to see, but slightly low show up well in the dirt.

Its a bit too far for my 14 bore's round balls, however I do have that 730gr. and the 1,000gr. Minnie moulds - just need someone to shoot it for me.  Hey Mikey?

[Mike Brooks]

I'll take a pass on that offer....

[Mad Monk]

Ok, this gives me something to think about. 

It has to do with a Pedersoli muzzleloader, of a design that is verboten on this forum, but it's actually a well made rifle with a heavy, tapered octagonal barrel.   I figured on selling it, but then curiosity kicked in and I began to wonder how it might shoot.  Clearly Pedersoli had the hunters in mind (conicals and sabots), but they could have done a 1:48 and found a happy medium between conicals and PRB.

They looked at original Jaeger rifles and simply copied the twist they saw in the originals.  They did the same thing with their longrifles which is why they have the 1 in 48 twist rather than 1 in 56 or 60.

When the Pedersoli Jaegers first came out they put together a competition team for a grudge match at Friendship.  The Jaeger rifles against the modern forbidden to mention guns.  Dave Ehrig was on that team.  They shot best with light loads (by modern ML standards) of fast burning Swiss powder.  Out to a certain range the Jaegers more than held their own.  But a long ranges they just could not match the modern "ML" rifles.  The Jaegers were not intended to shoot elongated projectiles.  Simply not fancy classic Alpine hunting Jaegers.

[Daryl]

I'm in total agreement with the Monk.  The Jaegers and the English guns seemingly had rather fast rates of twist using small charges for seemingly large bores.  Not sure about the Alpine hunting in Europe, but dogs were oft used in England and Scotland to assist in capturing wounded larger game like the smaller deer and Red Deer.
Light charges do not hurt as much when firing them.

Forsyth mentions one 13 bore rifle had that was twisted 1 turn in 36". It was a double rifle, meant for round balls & hunting on the "continent".  His main problem with it was it's hugely arched trajectory over normal game ranges, as in to 125yards, noting it "stripped badly" with anything more than 1 1/2 drams of powder. folks, that is 40gr. (pistol load) of powder being maximum. It would kill due to the 500gr. ball, however hitting was the problem due to the 13" trajectory over 100yards.
The use of dogs to collect wounded game was fortuitous as the fast rates of twist and low power due to small powder charges, wounded more game than not.