ALR Museum: View the famous " Whale" gun

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

What an extraordinary Southern Rifle!

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=140.0

[G-Man]

So many cool things to study on this gun.  I had only seen the photos in "KY Rifles and Pistols 1750-1850" and always liked this gun, but didn't ever get a good look at it till the CLA show last year.  These photos are excellent and there is a lot to take in. 

The iron work on this gun is really fine quality - does not look to be a maker's first attempt in iron.  But I would suspect this maker learned their trade east of the mountains, or maybe more likely learned from someone who had - the carving is nice, but to me sort of naive and folky looking compared to something you would expect from a builder trained in one of the established Maryland shops. 

I've always thought this to be one of the earlier suspected Tennessee guns out there - to me it looks like it could be as early as late 1790s.  Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Early Tennessee rifles (Pre-1820) were usually being made by "migratory" or first generation smiths who learned from someone who had learned in the more established gunmaking centers farther east and north.  The Joseph Bogle and Jacob Young rifles, and even some of the early work by the Bulls are good examples of early pieces made west of the mountains.  The early pieces don't usually fit the styles of what we usually think of as a "Tennessee" rifle.  The hardware on these earlier pieces usually looks like the makers trying to mimic the styles of the guns brought in to the region, rather than the fully evolved stylized hardware we typically associate with Tennessee guns.

Is it from Tennessee?   Hard to say, but I like the idea of a maker whose training is not associated with the typical areas we think of as primary influences of Tennessee rifles.  This gun is unusual as it lacks double set triggers - lending the maker to make the small bow guard.  Virginia guns from the upper Valley, Rockbridge, Augusta and Botetourt and southwest, and North Carolina Piedmont, often had double set triggers and seem to be the source of many of the influences you see on the very early Tennessee guns, so this gun seems atypical.  The guard profile with its long rail relative to the bow length looks sort of York PA to me - Similar to some of Shroyer's smaller guards.

Great piece and thanks for posting.

Guy

[WElliott]

Having studied and researched this rifle for some years, some additional comments may be helpful:

The rifle is signed "BHC" both on the lock and under the barrel. I don't know of a qualified Tennessee collector who has doubted the attribution to Berryman H. Compton, who worked in Giles County, Tennessee.  We don't know for sure, of course, since he did not sign his full name in clear script in multiple places on the rifle. Nor did "BHC" indicate on the rifle where he had made the rifle.  It has been generally attributed as a Tennessee rifle at least since it was pictured in the KRA "Kentucky Rifles & Pistols" book in 1976 where it was identified as "Tennessee".

Berryman H. Compton was born in South Carolina and I think there was an influence from that direction.  My view is that the place where Compton worked in Tennessee was near the head of the Natchez Trace and that he had a different clientele (and therefore had the freedom to make a different rifle) than those Tennessee makers who worked further east or up in the mountains.  Incidentally, the late Sonny Nevell told me the rifle turned up in New Orleans years ago, which gives some credence in my mind to the Natchez Trace influence.  As a matter of information, not all rifles made in Tennessee are iron mounted, walnut stocked mountain rifles.  (I personally like those very much, as well, and find many of them to have great architectural interest),

We do not know that Alexander Compton, who trained in Maryland, was Berryman's father.  I had suggested that as a working thesis to my friend Jerry Noble, but to my knowledge that connection has not been established as fact.

The rifle has not been broken through the wrist, although there is a stain line on one side of the wrist which must have misled one commentator who was looking at the pictures but  perhaps had not observed the rifle.  There is a break at the toe, as was correctly observed.  "If they only could talk"!

[G-Man]

Wayne - what do you think on timeframe on this one - maybe 1795-1805 era?  The lock looks a little bigger than the typical late English styles you see on post 1820 Tennessee rifles, and the shape just looks a little earlier to me as well.  I don't see a roller on the frizzen or spring - is there one?

The possibility of a son learning from someone who learned their trade in Maryland, and a stop in South Carolina on the way to Tenneessee, makes sense with the unusual features on this gun. 

In the late 1700s and early 1800s a lot of folks from the Cumberland plateau region boated goods down to New Orleans, sold their goods and boats, and made their way back to Tennesse and Kentucky using the Natchez Trace.  Neat to think that maybe this piece could have been bought by one of them - if they had any money left to spend on the way back...lots of good times to be had in New Orleans back then and lots of bad guys along the Trace looking to waylay those who tried to bring their money home....

On the iron vs. brass guns - the Thomas Simpson and Jacob Young pieces speak volumes - brass mounts and some of the finest metalwork you'll ever see on a longrifle. 

PS - is that an adjustable rear sight on the Whale rifle? 

Guy

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

What a great discussion and learning opportunity about Southern/ iron mounted guns. Thanks
Hurricane

[WElliott]

Guy,
I agree that the lock looks that early, and it is a healthy 5 1/4" long. without a roller on the frizzen.  The lock certainly seems to me to be made by the gunsmith and is signed "BHC".   That, along with the same "BHC" script signature on the bottom flat of the barrel are the reason to attribute it to Berryman H. Compton.  But, assuming Berryman H. Compton is the maker of the rifle and the lock, it had to have been made later, as he was not born until 1819.  (So far we have not found another possibility of a "BHC" gunsmith).   I have wondered if this was a "master" piece, made in the style of, the era of, and to please the master gunsmith, and therefore reflecting some earlier characteristics (lock and profile) while actually having an adjustable rear sight.  Yes- good eye, Guy- it does have an adjustable rear sight!  The sight is mounted on a 2 11/16" long base with an elevation screw at the front end, and it appears to be original to the gun.  The rear of the sight is dovetailed into the barrel as we would normally expect. 

Another interesting thing about the rifle (not to stir up the ongoing controversy about symbolism) is that, combined with what seems obviously symbolic about the whale-shaped patch box, it has an ichtus (Christian fish symbol) engraved on the toe plate and on the rear entry pipe extension and a tree of life on the forward  guard extension.  The heart shaped and egg shaped bone inlays suggest the same Christian symbolism.

Wayne

[Arnie Dowd]

Having seen and handled this outstanding Longrifle on more than one occasion,
I can attest to the fact that it is without parallel for a Tennessee Rifle of its period.
As a 45+ year student and lover of Southern Longrifles (iron-mounted in particular) it is nice to see them (although much fewer in number) finally being recognized as worthy equals to their much more touted brass-mounted, eastern and northern, cousins. Hopefully we will continue to see add'l fine iron-mounted long rifle posted to this site.

[Ian Pratt]

Another fine rifle, many thanks to the owner of this one for having allowed the pictures to be posted here

I want to add -  for those of us who love the Southern rifles, the show you need to attend is the one at the Museum of Appalachia this month. There is information about it listed under the announcements section. 

[Ken G]

Great rifle!  I too am very appreciative to the owner for allowing the pictures to be posted.  It surely doesn't fit the stereotype for a typical TN rifle. 

I saw the rifle at the Lexington CLA show and the rear adjustable sight is pretty neat.  Very simple ingenous method for raising the rear blade.

Ken