Combining stains and dyes?

[Ridge]

Hey guys, I'm about to start the finishing process on my first rifle.  Is it ok to combine a wood dye (LMF) with regular stain?  My plan would be to place a couple of coats of LMF on my stock and then go over it with a regular wood stain.  Can anyone think of a reason why I shouldn't do this? 

[PPatch]

By "regular stain" do you mean something like minwax brand? There is no technical reason you couldn't use both. It is best to test before you actually apply stains to your stock. If you don't have cut-off's from the actual stock to test then you can do small one's inside the barrel channel.

dave

[Ridge]

I guess a little more info would help, eh?  The stain is Mountain State Antique Brown.  The dye is LMF Honey Yellow.  The wood is walnut.

My goal would be to give the rifle a lighter color through the wrist, forearm and cheek piece.  All of the usual wear areas.  The stain is pretty dark and the yellower color (in my mind) should contrast well.

I just want to make sure that you can use dyes and stains together.  The dye is a nice light color when wet, but the most horrible yellow I've ever seen once dry.  I know that the color comes back once you apply a finish.

So from a chemical standpoint, you don't have to stick with one or the other?  It's ok to overlap them?

[davebozell]

You should be able to layer the two stains.  I agree that you'll want to test some sample pieces before staining your gun.  I recently finished a walnut cabinet where I applied a gel stain first, and then a thinner dye stain over the top.  Make sure the layers are dry before applying more.  I actually used the gel stain to seal the wood so that it wouldn't get too dark.  The dye stain added a red tint to the finish.  I'm not sure that the yellow will have much impact on a darkly stained wood though.  It's definitely worth experimenting.

[flehto]

Stains and dyes are very different colorants....stains have pigments that are basically colored clay and when applied to wood , resemble a thin paint. They stay on the surface and will obscure the curl or grain like paint.

Dyes have pigments that are microscopic and will  penetrate into the wood. For gunstocks, dyes are to be used as well as AF.

I wouldn't use stains on a gunstock. The nomenclature of stains and dyes are used interchangeably, but are very different....Fred

[wmrike]

It is a matter of taste, but I would offer that yellow is not a natural tone of walnut heartwood, which usually has admixtures of brown, black, maybe a bit of red, and less commonly a touch of purple (ugh!).  If you alter your palette a bit, you may be able to back into a set of dyes/stains that are more readily compatible.  Areas with worn finish on walnut usually looks like, well, just plain walnut.

[Ridge]

Thanks for the help.  Lots to think about.