Author Topic: filling gaps (Read 9465 times)

JohnN · « **on:** November 17, 2016, 06:25:07 AM »

What do you use or do to fill gaps between stock and barrel, tang,etc... Thanks

smylee grouch · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2016, 09:13:29 AM »

Who says we got gaps?

How big of gaps are we talking about?

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2016, 02:19:55 PM »

Quote from: JohnN on November 17, 2016, 06:25:07 AM

What do you use or do to fill gaps between stock and barrel, tang,etc... Thanks

Wood patches work well. Best way is not to make inletting mistakes.

JohnN · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2016, 05:06:43 PM »

Wish I could do things without making mistakes but I'm no Mike Brooks when it comes to gun building. Gaps are not big enough for using patches was thinking of the method I've read about using fine sawdust (file dust) and epoxy. Is the type of epoxy important ?

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2016, 05:13:03 PM »

We all goof up at times, I use very thin wedges and elmer's stainable wood glue for the little gaps.

These are impossible to detect on the finished product.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2016, 05:41:03 PM »

I have tried the sawdust/epoxy and have never been satisfied with the outcome. I agree with Eric's approach. Best to use wood from the same blank if you have it. I always try to save a few pieces just in case my chisel gets carried away (some days it seems to have a mind of its own).
Dennis

JohnN · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:16:16 PM »

The Rifle Shoppe was very generous with the wood and had a piece that was at least 6 x 3 x 3 attached to the butt.

Dan Fruth · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:53:24 PM »

Gaps...Ohhhhh I hate when that happens...I always keep my scraps from the blank when I saw out the profile, and choose from wood at the same (if possible) location as the boo boo...Neatly fit scrap with the grain running the same as the stock usually fills in unnoticable. I also glue with hide glue, not tite bond........Dan

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2016, 07:59:40 PM »

Quote from: JohnN on November 17, 2016, 05:06:43 PM

Wish I could do things without making mistakes but I'm no Mike Brooks when it comes to gun building. Gaps are not big enough for using patches was thinking of the method I've read about using fine sawdust (file dust) and epoxy. Is the type of epoxy important ?

I don't know where the saw dust and epoxy myth came from. The repair is always obvious. If you have to, make your gaps wider so you can glue in a piece of wood and carefully re inlet the parts, it works and I have had to do it several times. I use super glue and be sure to stain the surrounding area and the patch before you glue it in.

bob in the woods · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2016, 09:20:40 PM »

Using sawdust and glue will stand out like a beacon. With careful use, and some planning, you can replace wood and you will never be able to see the " mistake". Do as Mike Brooks suggested, and you'll be fine

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2016, 01:43:34 AM »

I go along with Eric's method for around the tang. Also, small gaps (less than 1/32") can be filled with black wax on finishing. It hides a lot of little inletting errors particularly around inlays. You can also hammer out (spread) metal at the edge of mounts like the butt piece or trigger guard to fill gaps. Small gaps along the barrel will tend to close up (wood curls inward) on their own as long as the wood is even along the barrel. There are lots of little tricks to make gaps and other defects seemingly disappear, including painting them out.

jerrywh · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2016, 06:09:49 AM »

There is no such thing as stainable wood glue. Glue doesn't stain. Do like Mike Brooks said.

Dan Fruth · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2016, 05:46:52 PM »

Here is a great article on repairing a very valuable Gibson mandolin with many cracks..The gentleman chose wood dust and glue...

https://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/70281-first-loar-signed-f-5-mandolin-gets-second-life/

jerrywh · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2016, 09:34:25 PM »

Dan Fruth.
Some things work on some woods but won't work well at all on other kinds of wood. Glue does not stain and maple gun stocks are generally stained. Try your technique on a sample piece of maple if in doubt before you do it on a gun. Glue will work pretty well on Walnut usually because it is usually not stained and super glue in particular is basically transparent. When the finish is applied on Walnut it is near impossible to detect a small gap fix when done with super glue. Wood glue is not as transparent but still works fairly well on walnut or any wood that does not require stain. That is why us old guys always tell you to stain the wood before you apply the glue on Maple because the wood cannot be stained after glue is applied. If it is you will end up with a light spot in that area.

Boompa · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2016, 10:09:56 PM »

Shucks I wouldn't know, I've never had a gap.

I try to match the wood and glue in a wedge as mentioned. As Mike points out, even if you have to cut a larger hole to glue in wood it looks better than any filler, sawdust & glue, etc.

Dan Fruth · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2016, 05:52:26 AM »

Jerrywh...I never fill with glue and wood dust...I just posted the link because it was so interesting, and somewhat related...My earlier post states I always use pieces of wood and inlet them and then re inlet to fix errors....Thanks

jerrywh · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2016, 06:24:18 AM »

Don.
Well I admit that I tried wood glue and sawdust once a long time ago on maple.
I didn't work well at all. No offense intended I mostly want any of the people who never tried it to know the difference in different woods. No matter how good a person may get at this there are always chip outs and things that occur. Especially in doing things like wire work. Dark walnut is very forgiving that way but maple can be a real hassle.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #17 on:** November 20, 2016, 04:53:43 PM »

I hide any obvious patches by using medium leather dye and an artists brush after I get the first coat of finish on. The dye will stain the coat of finish. I build up layers of dye using a heat gun to dry each coat, I always go dark for a cover up. The following coats of finish will lock the dye into place.

I dry brush the dye to blend it into the surrounding area to mute it's appearance.

JohnN · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2016, 05:10:35 PM »

By the way , thanks for all the suggestions and hints. First time posting on this forum. Thanks.

Long John · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2016, 06:24:57 PM »

At the Fair each summer for that past few years I have done a little demo on this topic. Mike is right, its best not to make the inletting mistakes in the first place. But, sometimes the guacamole hits the fan and there it is - the dreaded gap.

There are two options make the metal bigger or make the wood bigger.

Lots of times, some strategic peening of the back of a metal part can push the metal over so that the metal part fills the gap. I have taken a hammer to a barrel tang on occasion, peening the edge, so the metal flowed over and widened that tang. In the case here in this string that would not have been a good option unless the barrel flat could be widened too. But, sometimes a little hammering on the barrel flat widens the top flat of the barrel enough that the tang can be widened to fill a gap.

The other alternative is to make the wood bigger. In this thread, the wedges of wood shown above is one way of making the wood bigger, but I have some concerns about how it was done. It appears that the wood wedges were made with the wood grain running up-and-down. This will put end-grain wood along the tang. End-grain wood always takes stain very aggressively and generally results in a very dark piece of wood on the finished gun. If I have to make a wood filler, I always try to make the filler piece with the grain running the same way as the wood it will be glued to. I adjust the chip-breaker on my plane well away from the edge so I get ribbons of wood rather than chips. Then I adjust the depth of the blade for a cut as deep as the gap I need to fill. I take a plain maple board, tilt the plane to produce a ribbon with a wedge cross-section and make a filler ribbon. This ribbon can be moistened, coated with glue on the side that will be in contact with the stock wood and then installed to fill the gap, tapping the filler wedge down into the stock between the metal part and the inlet with a little wooden dowel to get a compressed-tight fit. Once dry the excess can be trimmed off. Done well, the resulting glue line is on the order of a thousandth of an inch thick, virtually invisible, and the wood grain is the same in the filler as in the stock adjacent. Staining makes the repair invisible. That's how I would have approached the task that is the subject of this thread.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

flehto · « **Reply #20 on:** November 22, 2016, 03:13:55 AM »

I've found that using super glue and a piece of similar wood is the easiest way to fill in a gap and it's also the closest to being invisible Whether just a crack or using a piece of wood, both sides are stained first and then the super glue applied. Very fast way of repairing....Fred

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #21 on:** November 22, 2016, 04:59:35 PM »

I always cut my filler pieces so the grain is the same as the piece I am patching, always. Well, almost, toothpicks in miss drilled pin holes are always end grain but become amazingly invisible on a finished rifle.

Here is my best patch to date;

I knocked this fowler off my work bench with the barrel in but tang screw out. When it hit the floor the tang broke out a dime sized spot on the left of the tang and a big sliver on the right side.

I gathered what I pieces I could find off the floor and put them back together with superglue, tapping them tightly into place with a small rawhide mallet as the superglue set. I had to fill a cavity underneath the surface and inside the inlet with superglue and sawdust because I couldn't find the splinters.

You can't see where the dime sized hole was but you can see the splinter on the far side slightly, about even with the center of the tang screw.

I took this picture before I polished the lock, deer season had just opened, I went to the woods with my mostly finished fowler, killed a deer with it and finished the lock polishing later.

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #22 on:** November 22, 2016, 05:42:37 PM »

Here is the above wedge patched tang that Long John thought was edge grain. My inletting looks sloppy but we have been in a 3 month drought with 85 degree temps up until a few days ago. I have been surprised how the stocks on some of my guns have shrunk. I even have a loose ramrod pipe on this one when they were tight as a drum when I installed them during a rainy spring.

That little white spot is left over Renaissance wax, I didn't notice it until after I took the picture, it wiped right off.

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Author Topic: filling gaps (Read 9465 times)

JohnN

JohnN

JohnN

Boompa

JohnN