Author Topic: RIA Auction - Looking for Opinions (Read 11875 times)

120RIR · « **on:** November 21, 2016, 06:15:12 AM »

The December Rock Island Auction has a number of long rifles - some really nice, others only "ok". There is what I believe would be referred to as a "barn rifle" (lot number 1246). How does this look to the more informed and skilled out there? Original condition? Refinished? Overall legitimate? I see there's a roller on the frizzen spring. My limited knowledge suggests that post-dates the gun but could certainly be a later replacement. What do y'all think?

120RIR · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2016, 08:55:57 AM »

Here are some photos.....

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2016, 07:11:37 PM »

looks a little upscale for a "barn gun". I would suspect its been refinished but most old flintlocks have been at one time or other. I wouldn't have any reason to think the lock is later than the rest of the gun but others more knowledgeable than me may differ.
Dennis

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2016, 07:29:38 PM »

I'd be suspect of the lock as well...only because it looks like a Siler, but alot of old locks look like silers, or maybe I should say silers look like a lot of old locks.

You could ask the guy that wrote the description of the gun, he does post here regularly. He may even take the lock out and photograph the inside it for you.

Eric Kettenburg · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2016, 07:49:45 PM »

That gun is probably ca. 1800-1815. I think it's pretty nice; I look at pieces like this as plain pieces that were likely stocked up and held on hand, could be completed into a much more elaborate piece or could be sold as-is. I think the lock looks good, if it's a replacement someone did a darn good job. I don't think it's a siler, this looks much more authentic.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2016, 08:02:34 PM »

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that this is a pretty nice longrifle, especially for the asking price. I agree that it has been scraped removing most of the original patina, but it has a nice colour and not an overdone finish. The lock looks original to the rifle - correct for the period and complimentary patina. I don't see any Siler in it - anywhere, though there are similarities in architecture. The rifle is complete and would make a nice addition to my stable, if I had the cash.
Thumbs up from me.

Eric Kettenburg · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2016, 10:31:12 PM »

Is the rough surface (looks like scraping indeed) because of a refine, *or,* is it like this because it was never finished into a more expensive rifle and was simply finished for a quick - and affordable - sale?

I've wondered about pieces like this for years, many of use have, but so far, no concrete answers.

Don Stith · « **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2016, 12:06:41 AM »

If someone wants to leave it to me in their will; I'll use that as incentive to try to out live them. Think the lock is a reconversion though

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2016, 02:24:24 AM »

I may have to wander over there on viewing day to see what they got. Anybody have any annoying spare cash they need to get rid of?

120RIR · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2016, 07:10:10 AM »

The exceedingly helpful and nice folks at RIA sent along a photo of inside of the lock...more fuel for the discussion. Eric's theory is quite interesting and I would think entirely plausible. Short of evidence contradicting it, it seems to make sense. Thanks everyone for your input - this is extremely helpful for a newbie!

JCKelly · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2016, 01:32:26 AM »

Three aspects make it look old to me.

1 When the mainspring is forged (bent) the metal on the inside of the bend moves outward. Modern Guys don't remove it - well Modern Guys use castings so they don't need to.
Those two little file cuts are appropriate to the time, would take a rather clever Modern Guy to copy them

2 Those side nails have rather poorly done threads on them.

3. Two of the screws have their slots cut off center.

A Modern Guy, at least on this forum, would be roundly criticized for poor workmanship on #3 & #3

Half a lifetime ago when I built Kentucky rifles I knew I did not have to be perfect to match much (no, not all)18th century workmanship. Imho, you guys work closer to Harry Pope standards.

Molly · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2016, 02:53:46 AM »

Quite an assortment of reasonable lookers. Estimates on all but a few look "normal" if there is such a thing as normal. With uncertainty as to conditions as can be determined by photos it looks like pre-auction estimates are suggesting a soft market with some exceptions.

Mr. Brooks: I have a dollar for you if that will help.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #12 on:** November 23, 2016, 04:04:22 PM »

I am a "modern" guy that doesn't let the bend on a mainspring "as is" when forged. It's just as easy to
make a spring look good as it is to make it look like junk.

Bob Roller

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2016, 04:11:50 PM »

Quote from: Molly on November 23, 2016, 02:53:46 AM

Quite an assortment of reasonable lookers. Estimates on all but a few look "normal" if there is such a thing as normal. With uncertainty as to conditions as can be determined by photos it looks like pre-auction estimates are suggesting a soft market with some exceptions.

Mr. Brooks: I have a dollar for you if that will help.

You can never tell what an item may bring at that auction. All it takes is two guys wanting a gun bad enough and you'll pay a premium price if you don't have the sense to jump out.

JCKelly · « **Reply #14 on:** November 23, 2016, 04:22:01 PM »

Auction . . . sense to jump out.

Anyone know where, other than quite empty wallet, one may acquire that Sense?

blienemann · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2016, 07:07:14 PM »

Mike - if you are serious about wandering over, I have some spare cash. Please let me know.

To all, I may take a shot at this one, but if others here or friends are doing the same, I do not wish to drive up the price for us on a plain rifle. We can share the info if one is successful. This may be delicate, but wanted to share my thinking. Please contact me offsite if comments?

thanks, Bob @ bobl@centurylink.net

Molly · « **Reply #16 on:** December 01, 2016, 07:24:10 PM »

Sure would be interesting to get auction results on the whole lot. Mr. Brooks, I'll nominate you as the one to record and report back.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #17 on:** December 01, 2016, 09:54:20 PM »

Quote from: Molly on December 01, 2016, 07:24:10 PM

Sure would be interesting to get auction results on the whole lot. Mr. Brooks, I'll nominate you as the one to record and report back.

I'm not going to spend 3 days there.....

oldtravler61 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 01, 2016, 11:17:53 PM »

Mike just bring a couple custom guns. Maybe one or two of yours an sit back grab a beer. Then watch the money flow. Might be a good break from the work bench. You might enjoy it. You could also drum up a few customers while your at it!!!! Oldtravler

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #19 on:** December 02, 2016, 12:50:59 AM »

Quote from: oldtravler61 on December 01, 2016, 11:17:53 PM

Mike just bring a couple custom guns. Maybe one or two of yours an sit back grab a beer. Then watch the money flow. Might be a good break from the work bench. You might enjoy it. You could also drum up a few customers while your at it!!!! Oldtravler

These guys want nothing to do with my guns, believe me. Contemporary ML's as a rule don't bring much money there, unless they are by one of the big hitters. I probably won't be considered a big hitter till after I croak.....

I don't think even a one of my guns have been through that auction over all of these years. Mostly local folks are actually at the auction and they have absolutely ZERO interest in Contemporary ML's. This isn't your average country bumpkin sort of auction where I could bring my stuff in, this is a high end affair that will sell thousands of incredible high end guns for high end money this weekend....Literally tens of millions of dollars this weekend alone. Most of the stuff goes to guys that drive/fly in with big amounts of $ or they bid over the phone. There are some local collectors that attend, but most of the top dollar stuff is bid over the phone.
Those that play there are after antiques. I have bought quite a few guns from RIA over the years, many times sitting there all day to do it. I have them call me on the phone if I want to bid now, I can go about my day and I'm only interrupted for a few minutes when the actual gun I want is up for bid.
I worked for this outfit for a month about a decade ago. Got to play with all sorts of cool stuff then.
I gotta get off here and drive over there now.

Brent English · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2016, 02:39:14 AM »

I've bought several guns at the RIA in the 1000 to 2500 range using sealed bids and always been a little disappointed when I did win. I have placed my bids based on the pictures and descriptions. The pictures and descriptions are getting better, but they don't light them to show defects. A lot of the guns in that price range are somebody else's culls from their collection, I think. Not trying to be too sour grapes about it. There are some nice things that change hands. I have bought a couple of 4-7 gun lots that had a good pick in them and sold the others on gunbroker or gunsinternational and got enough money from the individual sales to have little or nothing in the one I kept. One time I was disappointed in all of the guns in the lot and ended selling them individually for a loss. What hurts is the buyer premium, about 17.5 to 20% depending on if you pay with check or card. By the time I figure what I want to pay total, then deduct the premium I usually don't bid enough to win. But that is the nature of an auction, right? If you don't have the dough, don't go. For those of you looking to see what they items go for, check back in a couple of weeks after the auction and they post the results. There are always surprises both high and low. If you do win something and they ship it to you, their packaging is first rate. Just about bomb proof.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #21 on:** December 03, 2016, 12:56:12 AM »

Saw one of those contemporary Remington flintlock 200 year commemorative rifles there. Price estimate $3500-$5500. Any of you folks going to jump on this or can I have it?

Robert Wolfe · « **Reply #22 on:** December 03, 2016, 02:00:26 AM »

Mike - I'll flip you for it. Heads you win, tails I loose.....

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #23 on:** December 03, 2016, 02:33:45 PM »

Quote from: Molly on December 01, 2016, 07:24:10 PM

Sure would be interesting to get auction results on the whole lot. Mr. Brooks, I'll nominate you as the one to record and report back.

Hey Molly, they have a live feed, you could watch in real time all weekend.

Don Stith · « **Reply #24 on:** December 05, 2016, 10:45:40 PM »

So Who wound up with it?

News:

Author Topic: RIA Auction - Looking for Opinions (Read 11875 times)