Does anybody sell a proper cleaning jag?

[bones92]

The idea is pretty simple.  Use a dome-head screw (preferably with 8/32 or 10/32 screw to accommodate typical ramrod threading).   The jag is a tubular piece, with anular grooves, and 3 or 4 splits at one end.  The mouth of the split end would have a beveled entry to allow the dome-head screw to fit in smoothly.   

The screw is tightened only enough to just barely avoid expanding the jag until the ramrod is all the way down the barrel.   At the bottom of the barrel, the combination of the patch catching the grooves and the dome of the screw head expanding the splits in the end of the jag combine to create a tight seal, so that even fouling near the breechplug is pulled out. 

This design allows for a slightly smaller jag diameter, to avoid pushing fouling down the bore.

The ratios and dimensions would need to be adjusted, and it might need a screw with more of a tapered shaft near the head (to expand more than just the ends of the jag), but you get the idea.

In fact... I think one could make the actual jag out of rubber or plastic tubing, if you can cut grooves into the outer surface.

[bones92]

Well, either my idea is crazy or I stunned everyone with its genius...

[gumboman]

Bones92, can I ask you a question? Once the jag reaches the breech plug, what force will hold (grab on to) the jag sufficiently so that the tapered head of the screw can apply enough force to cause the split sections of the jag to expand?

As I think about your concept, the action I see is, pulling on the rod only moves the jag up without expanding the splits. To my mind there there will have to be a way to hold the jag in place mechanically so the tapered screw can apply enough force to cause the splits to expand. The moment the mechanical holding force is removed the jag will return to its closed position.
 

[WadePatton]

Well, either my idea is crazy or I stunned everyone with its genius...

no use for a jag here. un stunned?  


Gumbo, methinks the adjustment is to match your bore and patch material and is static, not dynamic in theoretical use.

[edit!]

Sorry I didn't read the sketch properly.  Maybe because I'm trying to save the work bench from this towball MONSTER!

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Good Evening Bones92,

I think that your jag design has some merit, but is probably a bit over engineered. The idea of using the long screw is not  a bad idea. Considering the number of broken off brass thread studs I have seen over the years, using a steel screw would be the best idea.

One time I made a jag that had the cross cuts on the end;could not determine that it made any real difference in cleaning the face of the breech.. However, since my barrels are equipped with patent breeches, that would have meant turning a two diameter jag to match the diameter of the powder chamber and bore. That also meant turning a longer jag; more work than I wanted to do.

Now my other suggestion is to use a flat heat screw and countersink to be flush and flat with the end of the a flat bottom jag. That way you can get the patch flush up against the face of the breech plug. Then you can cross file notches in the face of the jag for perhaps better cleaning of the breech plug face.

Back in the 1980's I made several hundred cleaning rods of 416 stainless steel and the brass jags. Started this at the request of numerous friends who wanted a stronger, less breakable screw on the jag system. For 45 caliber and larger bores. the rod were made of 5/16" diameter s.s. Under 45 caliber, 1/4" diameter s.s. was used.

The difference was that the end of the 5/16" rod  was turned and threaded for an external 1/4" - 28 thread. The jag had a matching internal 1/4" x 28 thread. The 1/4" diameter s.s. rod did not have to be turned.

Never had a jag break due to being loose on the rod. In fact nobody ever reported a broken jag to me.

Will write more on this later.

My wife is calling me to dinner, and you definitely would not want to miss my wife's cooking. She is from Thailand, and I am treated to great Thai dishes 3-4 times a week and in between, favorite American dishes she has learned to prepare for me.

I am a blessed man.

My respects to all,

John L. Hinnant
"God and Texas"

[bones92]

Gumboman brings up a valid point.   The head of the screw may need to be tapered so that it expands the jag and holds it in place.  It would require the right size outer diameter to achieve the purpose (i.e. not push fouling down on the downward stroke, and pull up more fouling on the upward stroke).

But I have an idea of how to do this.   I'll post a design when I have time to sketch it out.

[retired fella]

Wade,
That is one bodacious hairball.  Did the cat survive?

[gumboman]

The expanding jag concept can work if the ramrod is hollow, and the expansion screw (the tapered head screw) is attached to a secondary rod (we can call this the pull rod) running inside the hollow ramrod. In this approach the expanding jag is affixed to the hollow ramrod. When the secondary rod (the pull rod) sees a pulling force, the expansion screw can then apply force to the split in the cleaning jag causing it to expand against the barrel ID. As long as the pull force is applied to the pull rod, the split cleaning jag will remain expanded and can be pulled up an out of the barrel, bringing with it the fouling. Of course the difficulty is in maintaining the pull force on the pulling rod while it and the ramrod is pulled up and out of the barrel. This can be done by threading the opposite end of the pull rod and using a nut which can be turned to provide the pulling action on the pull rod. To clean the barrel again the nut is unscrewed to allow the expansion jag to close so the patch and jag can be sent down the barrel with a loose fit, then the cycle is repeated.

The expansion screw would need to be a flat head so the flat face of the breech plug can have a chance to get cleaned.

[P.W.Berkuta]

All this is sounding more like a "rube goldberg" project all the time -- can't wait to read more .

[gumboman]

Needlessly complex solutions to simple problems often lead to simple solutions.

The integrated circuit would be an example.

[bones92]

Actually, you describe my first impression of a solution, but with a thin cable running up through the hollow ramrod.  But I don't prefer this method because:

1. It adds complexity
2. I don't think any of us have a hollow ramrod.

It should be able to screw into the 8/32 or 10/32 tip of a range rod.

[WadePatton]

Wade,
That is one bodacious hairball.  Did the cat survive?

Only dogs in my house anymore.  Less furballs that way.  The dang mess looks like a cheap wig everytime I peer down into the bag to see what it is.  Just more of my reorganization.  I bought 8 oz. of tow on Ebay for a few bucks a few years ago.  That's how much is "left over".  At my current rate of tow usage/re-usage, that is a lifetime supply even if I make it to 100. 

And by then I'll be growing flax.  I eat flaxseed daily, might as well have some fresh.