54 cal turkey choke barrel

[Pat_Cameron]

I did not know if I should put this here or in the gun building section.
Since it has as much to do with hunting, I put it here.
I just sent an e-mail to Scott at Colerain to see if there was any possible
way they have ever thought about a turkey choke version of a 54 cal barrel.
I think this would be a great idea for a 28 gauge, squirrel gun, and committed to a 38 inch
barrel. (not that it is available, but rather put your money where your mouth is kind of thing)
Then I wondered if there would be a market for something like this.
I think there would be and wondered if others thought the same?

Pat Cameron

[Mike Brooks]

I don't know about the rest of the states, but minimum is a 20 bore in Iowa for turks. Besides, my 28 bore shot as tight as a jugged 20 bore would, I don't think you  need a choke on a 28 bore. I wouldn't recommend colerain's  tapered choke anyway.

[Pat_Cameron]

I was intending to use it as a squirrel gun and other small game, not for turkey.
Although it would be legal in Kentucky.
I have owned and used a Colerain turkey choke. .620 for quite some time
and it has accounted for over a dozen birds. I have also used a 54 cal smoothbore
with #5 shot to harvest a fall turkey last year.
I know of many other gun owners that use a colerain turkey choke barrel as
their exclusive turkey gun and to the man would never trade it for something
else when it comes to turkey.
I still think a 54 cal choked by the same method as their .620 would make a $#*! of a small game gun.

Pat Cameron

[Mike Brooks]

I have never seen anything shoot tighter than a properly made jug choke, but to each their own.

[Pat_Cameron]

Mike,
     I have never shot a jug choked barrel. I started with the colerain turkey choke. It works.
I have killed 2 birds in excess of 40 yards. Both were bad judgements in range estimation.
But it did get the job done. I like 30 yards better but feel confident at 35 yards.

In the 54 cal/28 gauge. I will likely look into a jug choked barrel as the colerain option
I started the thread with is not very likely.
I appreciate you input.
Pat

[WaterFowl]

Like the idea...the turkey choke barrels hold tight. I owned 2...still have one not used.
Only 2 draw backs on them
1.  Mine leaded up....means I had to work to get them spotless clean.
2. Can not shoot round balls out of them..
Note had to add rear sight because they held pattern that tight.

These shot so good I felt like I cheating myself in the flintlock state of mind.no kidding.
Went back to cyl bore.. And called them in closer.......

Note ....I stopped the barrel leading by loading my shot in a lubed patch.it worked too!
Powder-over powder cards -strip patch cut to butt edges inside bore-shot-overshot card.


My vote iffin you would like a longer in the zone hunting limits would be a jugged choked 54-28 ga.
Round ball and shot makes for a more versital gun.

Now if you just itching for another .......the turkey choked 54 would be sweet.
I can picture one in Oct.-round long tapered and flared thinned walled barrel.

The numbers made would need to defray the new tooling cost.

[Clark Badgett]

I just read the KAR on turkey hunting. Wow, when did they lower the minimum to .410?

[oldtravler61]

  Don't shoot squirrels with a shotgun. Doesn't seem like a challenge. A 54 smoothie is a bit light for Turkey's. Unless you really know your gun an your capabilities. Pat maybe Ed Rayle could make you one. Just a thought. Mike

[GANGGREEN]

I've replied to almost every thread that I've read about the Colerain turkey choke barrel.  These things get nearly universally positive reviews and guys speak of unreal patterns out of them.  Sadly, I have a fowler I made with the Colerain special turkey barrel and I simply can't get the SOB to shoot a decent pattern.  I haven't experimented a ton, but I've probably shot 8 or 10 different combinations of shot, load, under/over cards and wads, etc. and none of them were better than barely acceptable at 25 yards.  I'll keep reading and hoping to find the secret cure for my fowler, but maybe I'd better contact Colerain and ask them for advice one of these days.  I'm down that way occasionally, maybe I could stop in if anyone's ever around and don't mind customers wading into the shop.

[Matt / PA]

Gangreen,
Just a quick question on your patterning efforts.....how big of a sheet of paper are you shooting? I have seen guys shoot at those turkey targets by themselves and it's just not a big enough canvas for proper feedback......you sound like you probably have that part covered but I have seen it before with a pretty seasoned hunter. He was shooting a target about 12x16 and didnt realize the dense center of his pattern at 30yds was printing completely off his target low right.  A big fat 3ftx3ft sheet of brown paper was an eye opener! A little filing on the front and a drift on the rear brought a big sigh of relief.
I have had very good luck with this load in my 38" colerain turkey barrel:
95grs of 3fg goex, 2 thin overshot cards, a hoppes 9+ lubed wool wad, 13/4oz of nickle plated 5.5 shot, jiffy muffin mix for buffer, 2 thin overshot cards to top it off.
This gives me consistently 140+ pellets in a 10" circle around the densest portion of the pattern. Enough energy to shoot through both sides of a Campbells chunky soup can.
That gives me an honest 35yd gun and I think with some tweaking could do even better.
Good nickle plated shot really helps to keep the pellets uniform and in target and all but eliminates barrel leading if you dont use a lubed patch shot cup.

[GANGGREEN]

Gangreen,
Just a quick question on your patterning efforts.....how big of a sheet of paper are you shooting? I have seen guys shoot at those turkey targets by themselves and it's just not a big enough canvas for proper feedback......you sound like you probably have that part covered but I have seen it before with a pretty seasoned hunter. He was shooting a target about 12x16 and didnt realize the dense center of his pattern at 30yds was printing completely off his target low right.  A big fat 3ftx3ft sheet of brown paper was an eye opener! A little filing on the front and a drift on the rear brought a big sigh of relief.
I have had very good luck with this load in my 38" colerain turkey barrel:
95grs of 3fg goex, 2 thin overshot cards, a hoppes 9+ lubed wool wad, 13/4oz of nickle plated 5.5 shot, jiffy muffin mix for buffer, 2 thin overshot cards to top it off.
This gives me consistently 140+ pellets in a 10" circle around the densest portion of the pattern. Enough energy to shoot through both sides of a Campbells chunky soup can.
That gives me an honest 35yd gun and I think with some tweaking could do even better.
Good nickle plated shot really helps to keep the pellets uniform and in target and all but eliminates barrel leading if you dont use a lubed patch shot cup.

Thanks Matt.  This is what I'm talking about.  Geez, 140 pellets in a 10" circle, I'd die for that pattern.  My load and components aren't too far from what you're doing (although I haven't used a buffer) and I get terribly loose patterns, even at 20-25 yards.  I suppose you could be correct that a very tight shot group is patterning just off the paper, but I suspect I'm using 18X18" paper at 20 to 25 yards, it's hard to imagine that I wouldn't see evidence of such around the corners.  Furthermore, I'm not really sure how to bring the pattern up that far since I don't use a rear sight and only use the short turtle front sight.  I guess I'll go at it again though and figure out once and for all what's wrong.  If I can't get it figured out this year I'll just have to sell the fowler to a bird or bunny hunter and make myself a new one.   

[Matt / PA]

Just for your own sanity, next time you are at Lowes grab a roll of brown "builders paper". The stuff is cheap.....i think under $10 and it really is useful stuff. I never leave home without it when I take my smoothbores out.
It is very possible you are shooting under with no rear sight.....the tendency with just a front is to really bear a straight line down the rear barrel flat to the sight and if you think about it, no rear sight would ever be that low. Lowering a rear sight brings your shots down so if you are down that hard on it it's definitely possible.
You may need to "raise your rear sight" by changing the plane of your sight picture.......close your eyes mount the gun comfortably without an effort to squish down flat and then open your eyes. I would bet a dollar that you are seeing much more of the barrel than when you are shooting those turkey patterns.
It might be as simple as learning to see more barrel flat essentially raising your rear sight.

30yd patterns......just an average one. Ive been as high as 150 hits but very consistent.


20yds is nasty......and this is #5.5s......6's would add even more holes.

[GANGGREEN]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.  I'll try the larger backboard and brown paper and I'll also try seeing more of the barrel in my sight picture.  If that's the issue, I suppose I can come up with some sort of low rear sight that would work, even if it would look a bit "off".  I'd rather have that pattern that you're showing.  That said, I've killed two gobblers with it at fairly close range (say 25 yards) and neither one was terribly body shot, so I don't know.

[Mike Brooks]

I pattern tested a jug choked gun I built for a customer. 20 bore with 1 1/4 oz #4's. It put the full load of #4's in an 18" circle @20 yards....might have been 25, some time ago.....

[WaterFowl]

28" outside circle
18" inside

This was repeatable.

[Mauser06]

Waterfowl, that's pretty dang impressive...Very clean pattern!! 


What range was that shot?   


What is your go-to turkey load if you don't mind sharing??   




I too have  a Colerain turkey barrel.  I've tried a lot of combos. I went with #6 nickel plated shot. I'm using commercial buffer.  Kind of a pain to load...But it seems to make a difference..And not like small game hunting and needing to reload. 



I have found that somewhere around 90-100gr of powder and 120-150gr of shot (plus buffer) with many thin wool wads is giving me my best results.  I tried the hard Nitro wads, thick cusion wads, etc stacking 5 thin lubed wool wads seems to work best for me. 


You pattern looks a bit better if that's 30+ yards. 


Matt and I have compared lots of notes lol...



I found the barrel VERY forgiving once I figured out the basics. I haven't found anything to make it shoot much better or worse...It shoots most combos well enough for 35yd turkey killing. 


I've wanted to try making wads from t-shirt or patch material. Really I'm afraid to blow the dang thing up....With the wads and shot and buffer I've shot stuff that gotta be around 3 ounces....There's no way to measure pressure or anything like modern reloading...I seen Colerain has 100gr and 2oz loads on their site so I used that kinda as my max...


Happy where I am...But if I can get it tighter and cleaned up a little more dense I'd be really happy...





A big sheet is key when patterning these things....And a rear sight...I can shoot for beans without a rear sight..Not consistently...I was shooting at just paper plates and realized a lot of heavier loads and lighter powder charges went a bit low..They shot 6 o'clock with the top edge of the pattern where I leveled the sights. 

[GANGGREEN]

Well, that does it, I'm putting a rear sight on.  I can't duplicate any of the shot patterns that are described or photographed in this thread.  I don't know that it's historically correct to place a rear sight on a fowler, but I don't care, my goal is to kill turkeys humanely at distances greater than 15 or 20 yards.  This thread has gotten a bit off topic and for that I apologize because I think I steered it in a different direction.

[Mike Brooks]

I have put rear sights on every purpose built turkey gun I have made.

[GANGGREEN]

I have put rear sights on every purpose built turkey gun I have made.

That's good to hear Mike, I'll feel far better about doing so knowing that you've done it with all of yours.  This gun is expressly for turkeys, nothing else, so a sight is going on it.  Any recommendations?

[Mike Brooks]

I have put rear sights on every purpose built turkey gun I have made.

That's good to hear Mike, I'll feel far better about doing so knowing that you've done it with all of yours.  This gun is expressly for turkeys, nothing else, so a sight is going on it.  Any recommendations?

I'm not saying it's right or wrong , I'm just saying I did it. I think a rear sight looks out of place on an otherwise full blown English fowling gun. I always use a standard rifle sight mounted where the customer usually has one mounted so he can see it best.

[Dennis Glazener]

That's good to hear Mike, I'll feel far better about doing so knowing that you've done it with all of yours.  This gun is expressly for turkeys, nothing else, so a sight is going on it.  Any recommendations?
Modify message

I have put rear sights on a couple of my fowlers. One I made (actually made 3 before I got one I liked) and the other one I got from Clay Smith. Clay has a mold for a trade sight that works well for a fowler rear sight. I understand they were pretty common on early trade guns. I have seen photos of brass ones that had bee dug up by relic hunters.
Dennis

[WaterFowl]

Well, that does it, I'm putting a rear sight on.  I can't duplicate any of the shot patterns that are described or photographed in this thread.  I don't know that it's historically correct to place a rear sight on a fowler, but I don't care, my goal is to kill turkeys humanely at distances greater than 15 or 20 yards.  This thread has gotten a bit off topic and for that I apologize because I think I steered it in a different direction.

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a rear sight and large shot pattern paper will do you wonders..the paper don't lie!

[GANGGREEN]

Thanks all, some good info there.