Pistol ID

[2nocks]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum.  I'm posting some pictures of a pistol that was given to my father in the 1960's. It was found during an excavation project in NYC.  Can anyone help with identification of the gun such as the make and it's approximate age? I believe the first photo may be some sort of branding or maybe the makers ID, although I did not get a great pic.  Thank you.

[2nocks]

one more picture.

[Mike Brooks]

I don't believe that gun was ever underground. It looks to be built for the Mid Eastern trade. More than likely post 1800.

[conquerordie]

Mike's right that the pistol was never in the ground. Maybe found in a wall or foundation, but not excavated. Can you get better pics of the stamps on the barrel. That might help. Thanks,
Greg

[Big Wolf]

I agree that it was made for the middle eastern trade, but that tang carving is much better than you normally see on most stuff from that region.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Excavation may not mean archaeological.  The gun could have been discovered during the excavation of an old foundation or building during construction of a new building and the gun found in a wall or nook.  I also would not jump to the conclusion that it is for middle eastern trade.  However, I have no idea who or what the proof or maker's mark on the barrel indicates.

dave

[Bob Roller]

If soaked on Kroil long enough,that lock might work again.
This was no ornament,it was a serious one shot pistol and
the ornamentation was part of the making of it.
I also think it was found in a wall and not dug up from the ground.
Bob Roller

[2nocks]

Thanks guys. Keep em coming.  I'll try to get some better pics of the markings.

Bob the lock works, trigger pull is actually pretty nice on it as is.

Gun was found in tact too, my dad brought it to school as a kid and broke the stock. My brother and I finished the job on the stock knocking off the fireplace dozens of times.

[JTR]

It's a shame to see it in two pieces like that.
Why haven't you, or someone, glued it back together?

John

[PPatch]

Thanks guys. Keep em coming.  I'll try to get some better pics of the markings.

Bob the lock works, trigger pull is actually pretty nice on it as is.

Gun was found in tact too, my dad brought it to school as a kid and broke the stock. My brother and I finished the job on the stock knocking off the fireplace dozens of times.

The broken stock break can be restored, but some knowledge of how to would be required. It isn't one of those take it out in your shop and slop some glue on it deals.

Nice pistol, and pretty well made judging by the stock carving.

dave

[smart dog]

Hi,
There appears to be some markings on the lock plate.  A little oil might help clear them up.

dave

[conquerordie]

To me the barrel ( octagon the whole length)
, the relief work on the barrel, and the carving would make it a nicer than average pistol. Very nice carving around the tang, but almost gaudy buttcap and Side plate that although fancy, doesn't look overly finished or polished.
Greg

[Seth Isaacson]

The deep "engraving" and raised carving are pretty common on pistols from areas once controlled by the Ottomans (most of the areas around the Mediterranean). The stock carving is in better shape than most examples but is not really any better quality overall than is regularly seen. These pistols aren't generally worth much in part due to their usually poor condition and also due to the large numbers of phony guns coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan, but the connection to your family certainly makes it an interesting heirloom. I'd see if you could get it fixed and then place it in a shadow box up on the wall.

Edit: Here is an intact example:
http://www.ima-usa.com/original-british-flintlock-pistol-for-turkish-market-circa-1820.html

[Mike Brooks]

The deep "engraving" and raised carving are pretty common on pistols from areas once controlled by the Ottomans (most of the areas around the Mediterranean). The stock carving is in better shape than most examples but is not really any better quality overall than is regularly seen. These pistols aren't generally worth much in part due to their usually poor condition and also due to the large numbers of phony guns coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan, but the connection to your family certainly makes it an interesting heirloom. I'd see if you could get it fixed and then place it in a shadow box up on the wall.

Edit: Here is an intact example:
http://www.ima-usa.com/original-british-flintlock-pistol-for-turkish-market-circa-1820.html

You got it. You should ID this kind of stuff for a living or something, you're pretty good at it....

[smart dog]

HI RH,
That seems like a pretty good match.  Did they usually forego proof marks on the barrels?

dave

[Seth Isaacson]

Thanks Mike. 

Dave, it depends on where it was actually made. Many continental European firearms were never proofed because there were no legal requirement to do so and often no official proof houses to do the testing nearby. Some of those that were also have the proofs concealed on the bottom of the barrels.

[2nocks]

Thanks everyone! appreciate all the help!