Don King Bedford Long Rifle fron @ Early 1970's

[realtorone]

Went to the Civil War Show at Franklin Tenn. last weekend and picked up a super nice 40 Cal. Don King Bedford Co. Rifle. Lock is engraved D K and barrel is signed,(engraved) D.King. Rifle is not dated but I suspect it was made in Wichita in the early 1970s. 

[Dphariss]

If you can post photos I can try to show them to Don the next time I see him.  He might know who he made it for.. Caliber would help too. I have some of Dons records to probably sometime in the 60s when he stopped writing them up.

Dan

[Dphariss]

Don started making fancy Bedfords in 1963 so it could be 1960s as easy as 1970s.

Dan

[realtorone]

Dan

Sent you a private e mail through the forum, did you receive it? If not please contact me. I have got to get my internet provider to explain to me why pictures and other attachments get hung up in my outbox.

George

[realtorone]

Still have not mastered Photos but I have discoverer several strange things.
It was presented as a 40 cal. but is someplace between a 36 to 38.Have not figured out how I will be sure without removing the barrel from the stock to slug it. It has 8 grove rifling is 42 7/8 in the bore and 43 5/8 muzzle to the joint with the breech plug.It appears to be chamfered at the muzzle back about 1/2 inch(ease in loading?).I may try and tap an old 40 cal.slug I cast about 40 years ago  in a  Geo.P.Foster to determine the Cal.
If anyone has any ideas please let me know as I sure don't want to do any damage to this rifle.
Thanks   George
 

[Bob Roller]

Buy a set of small hole gauges,the ball type and forget about slugging that barrel. On a muzzle loader only the land
diameter is needed. This type of gauge comes in sets and goes to .500. Telescoping gauges are useful as well and can be
used on bigger bores than .500.

Bob Roller

[realtorone]

Thanks Bob Merry Christmas to u nd yours

George Hebling

[realtorone]

Got the small hole gauges I purchased(Thanks again Bob) and the bore mic's .365 three inches below the muzzle. At 1.5 inches its .368. The previous owner said he was told it is a Bill Large Barrel, but I never heard Don say had used a Barrel other than a Douglas.
Dan can I send pictures to you from my I-5 ?

George

[Curt J]

For what it is worth, I have a Don King "Hawken" in .50 caliber, that definitely does have a Bill Large barrel.

[realtorone]

Thanks Curt for the info on Don using a Large Barrel. I lived about a block and a half from Don in Wichita 69-71. and used to spend a lot of time watching him work. His single car attached garage was converted to his shop. Is your Hawken a flint or percussion? All I remember Don using was Douglass,but time clouds the memory.
Thanks for your reply
George

[Bob Roller]

Thanks Curt for the info on Don using a Large Barrel. I lived about a block and a half from Don in Wichita 69-71. and used to spend a lot of time watching him work. His single car attached garage was converted to his shop. Is your Hawken a flint or percussion? All I remember Don using was Douglass,but time clouds the memory.
Thanks for your reply
George

I KNOW Don King used Bill Large's barrels and have seen them in Bill's shop ready to go.
Don visited Bill in the winter if 1961 and wanted to meet me but my car was in the shop
with transmission problems. Bill came to Huntington and got me and that'd how I met Don King.
Is he still alive? I hope so if his health is tolerable. I think he may be older than I am and I'm
coming up on 81.
Don probably did use Douglas barrels if he couldn't get Bill's or at customer request.

Bob Roller

[realtorone]

Bob
I,m going on 79 and Don was 4 or 5 years older than me as I recall. I have not talked directly with Don since I took delivery of the Vincent he made for me in 1972.Several members keep track of him and it seems he still shoots but they say he stopped building ,even for himself sometime in late 80's or 1990's. I get the impression he is almost a recluse.
The barrel on my Vincent is Douglass and it seems to me he was using then on his Armstrong's and Bedford's when I was stationed in Kansas. Dan, on this thread has more info on Don and lives close to him and may be able to fill you in on Don's actions since he moved to Montana.

George Hebling

[Curt J]

My Don King Hawken is a percussion halfstock with Bill Large barrel, and is stocked with a really gorgeous piece of maple. I'm told it was originally built for a cross stick shooter in central Illinois.

[realtorone]

Curt
Is it dated? My Vincent is dated but have not found a date on the Bedford so far,but have not removed the barrel from the stock, yet.I lived in east central Illinois from 1973 until  1981 and never heard of a King Hawken but Illinois is a large state and a lot of people do not advertise what they have. Thanks for your responses.

George

[Dphariss]

Thanks Curt for the info on Don using a Large Barrel. I lived about a block and a half from Don in Wichita 69-71. and used to spend a lot of time watching him work. His single car attached garage was converted to his shop. Is your Hawken a flint or percussion? All I remember Don using was Douglass,but time clouds the memory.
Thanks for your reply
George

I KNOW Don King used Bill Large's barrels and have seen them in Bill's shop ready to go.
Don visited Bill in the winter if 1961 and wanted to meet me but my car was in the shop
with transmission problems. Bill came to Huntington and got me and that'd how I met Don King.
Is he still alive? I hope so if his health is tolerable. I think he may be older than I am and I'm
coming up on 81.
Don probably did use Douglas barrels if he couldn't get Bill's or at customer request.

Bob Roller

Don is alive but suffering from a couple of ailments along with pain from his Chosin Res GSW.  Don used both Large barrels and Douglas and others too from time to time later on. Most of the FL Hawkens he made have 1" Douglas. He stopped making guns about 10 ? years ago.  I will tell him you asked about him. I hope to visit him on the 7th since I have to take my Dad to the VA in Billings. Missed buying a DK flint Hawken by a few days last month..... But late is late in gun deals.
 I first met Don at a FL and Buckskin Rendezvous at Friendship in 1968.

Dan

[Dphariss]

Curt
Is it dated? My Vincent is dated but have not found a date on the Bedford so far,but have not removed the barrel from the stock, yet.I lived in east central Illinois from 1973 until  1981 and never heard of a King Hawken but Illinois is a large state and a lot of people do not advertise what they have. Thanks for your responses.

George

Taken at the Chadron Rendezvous in 1972

[Bob Roller]

Curt
Is it dated? My Vincent is dated but have not found a date on the Bedford so far,but have not removed the barrel from the stock, yet.I lived in east central Illinois from 1973 until  1981 and never heard of a King Hawken but Illinois is a large state and a lot of people do not advertise what they have. Thanks for your responses.

George

Taken at the Chadron Rendezvous in 1972

Dan,
Can close ups of the locks be posted? I THINK I saw one or more of the Ketlands I made in years long gone.
Also the rifle I saw at Bill Large's that long ago night was Don's presentation of a Hawken.

Bob Roller

[Dphariss]

The ones I have seen were locks Don made in his shop, the plates and pans I should say. They have Schillinger internals. But some of the early ones could have something else. I could ask Don if he used other locks.  I am supposed to see him Tuesday. But he did tell me that he used Schillinger internals. This is a lock from a pair of Hawken pistols I have. The internals and those of the lock on my FL Hawken rifle are identical to the internals of a Schillinger percussion Hawken lock I have. The pistol locks are just a little smaller than the rifle locks but use the same cocks and frizzens and internals. The pans were silver soldered to the plates. At Don's recommendation I put a L&R 1700 frizzen on my rifle lock since I was having a lot of trouble with broken flints.






The photo of all the rifles on the blanket is (obviously) from 1973. I goofed.
Dan

[Dphariss]

Have winter storm watch running so I won't be going to Billings and won't see Don.


Dan

[realtorone]

Dan
Thanks for letting me know. Hope the weather isn't too bad,and I'll try and send some better pictures before you get to see Don. Stay safe my friend.
George Hebling

[Curt J]

My Don King Hawken rifle is not dated.  It is signed "D. King" in script on the top flat of the Bill Large barrel. The lock is not marked, but I suspect that he might have made it.

[Dphariss]

Don Signed them in script and he stamped some with his small D. King stamp.

Most of the locks he made for the Hawkens were marked as shown in the photo.  But probably not all. Will try to remember to ask him next time I see him.
I have an appt in Billing later this month. If I can remember and if he I get to see him.


Dan

[Carney Pace]

I used to blank out tumblers on a turret lathe when I worked for Blanchet Machine in Wichita for Don.  I would be using 4340 or 4130 bar stock and would run 20 or so tumblers for him to finish for the Hawken lock.
If I remember right he would cut the throat on the cock and reweld it to change the strike angle on the frizzen.

Don has been a very good friend since the late 1950's.  Remember seeing alot of his rifles in all stages of work.  Lots of stories.

Carney

[Dphariss]

I used to blank out tumblers on a turret lathe when I worked for Blanchet Machine in Wichita for Don.  I would be using 4340 or 4130 bar stock and would run 20 or so tumblers for him to finish for the Hawken lock.
If I remember right he would cut the throat on the cock and reweld it to change the strike angle on the frizzen.

Don has been a very good friend since the late 1950's.  Remember seeing alot of his rifles in all stages of work.  Lots of stories.

Carney

Hi Carney.

Been missing you at the fairs.

Keep in touch.

Dan

[realtorone]

Additional information has come to light ,from a previous owner that indicates it was made in the early to mid 1960's for Bill Large.
George Hebling