Making a T/C Hawken more Hachen-ish

[Chowmi]

I have a friend who has a TC Hawken and I have agreed to help him put it together.  He probably won't care how close it is to a Hawken, but it smacks of opportunity to put a few extra hours in and make it better.
Hawkens are just not my area of study, so I ask the forum: what are a few things I can do to take it from the not-a-Hawken kit to something a bit closer? 

I've seen Herb's Hawken build threads, and will go back and have a look at his examples, and the pictures he has posted about the Bridger Hawken, GRRW Hawkens, etc.

Things that come to mind are:
Getting rid of That "dish" TC puts under the cheek rest
Blending the top of the side of the fore-arm so it is not flat. If memory serves, the nose cap that comes with the kit is flat on the top, which then drives a flat ledge on the top of the fore-arm. I assume that the Hawken brothers did not do this, i.e. they curved the top of the fore-arm like all the other long rifles we see.
I suspect the trigger guard is not terribly close. Can it be modified? 
Easily done would be a non-modern rear and front sight.
How about the lock bolt washer/inlay on the left side?

Time-wise, a new pre-carve stock is out of the question. My friend won't care how close it is, but I would like to help him end up with something that is more than just a standard TC Hawken.
I really don't think we are going to go for a full Hawken modification/stock re-do here, but a few small authentic touches would be nice.

Thanks for any help,
Cheers,
Norm

[Chowmi]

Oh boy!
Just looked at pictures of the Bridger Hawken and the DT Hawken.....
Two barrel keys, vice one on TC...  Rear entry pipe for ramrod vice going through the nose cap ....
And about a hundred other things... 
Did they at least usually use brass furniture? 

[Hivernant1962]

Chowmi,
            The Hawken Shop carries more "Hawken" looking conversion hardware sets. http://www.thehawkenshop.com/Products/Four-piece-conversion-kit__F4.aspx  You might try to get a hold of them.

[flehto]

Because of the bulbous comb and cheekpiece causing cheekslapping  by the TC Hawken shown below, the comb and buttplate return were taken down and a lot of wood was removed from the cheekpiece which was remodeled. The surface mounted key escutcheons were discarded and new ones were inletted flush. The flat atop the fore end was rounded. Wasn't trying for "a more authentic Hawken",  mainly just making it more comfortable to shoot.....Fred

[Hungry Horse]

Probably the best information I can give you, is that the Hawken brothers built guns other than their famous mountain rifles. These guns lend themselves better to a T/C conversion. They often had one barrel key, and also often had poured nose caps. An all iron conversion kit was offered some years ago, but I haven't seen one advertised. I do agree that the buttstock, and cheekpiece, should be slimmed down.

  Hungry Horse

[Scota4570]

It'll never be a hawkin.  I have modified a couple of them to be more old timeie looking.  The basic rifle has almost no details that are period correct.  I did the following:

-lower the comb
-reshaped the stock to be more period
-restyled the trigger guard
-inlet the wedge plates
-added a lock plate screw escuchion
-added an entry pipe
-added a poured nose cap
-solderd the rib in place
-replaced the thimbles and let them into the rib properly
-added an oval inlay, with federal eagle, in the cheekpiece
-added a little simple engraving to the patchbox

When finished they look better to me.  They were still stylisticly conflicted.  Maybe the best thing to do is to pare down the comb and take a little meat of the stock in general.  Have a goal in mind before you start removing wood. 

[Chowmi]

Thanks all for the replies! 
That has given me a wide range of options to present to the owner of the kit.
It'll never be a true Hawken, but at least we can clean up some of the mess!

I will post some pictures when we get to it. Might be a while.
I'll also copy all the replies and put them in my files.
Thanks again for your time,
Cheers,
Norm.

[Daryl]

It'll never be a hawkin.  I have modified a couple of them to be more old timeie looking.  The basic rifle has almost no details that are period correct.  I did the following:

-lower the comb
-reshaped the stock to be more period
-restyled the trigger guard
-inlet the wedge plates
-added a lock plate screw escuchion
-added an entry pipe
-added a poured nose cap
-solderd the rib in place
-replaced the thimbles and let them into the rib properly
-added an oval inlay, with federal eagle, in the cheekpiece
-added a little simple engraving to the patchbox

When finished they look better to me.  They were still stylisticly conflicted.  Maybe the best thing to do is to pare down the comb and take a little meat of the stock in general.  Have a goal in mind before you start removing wood.

I did this to (except for more inlays), back in the mid 70's & used it as a test-bed up to about 78, for the Bauska barrels I purchased from Les in the summer 1975.  They ran from .36 to .50 cal as all were 15/16" wide to fit that stock.  In around 77/78 or so, I made my own test bed for the bunch of 7/8" barrels - then sold it in 82 when it was a flintlock .44 smoothbore - go figure.

[Chowmi]

Thanks again for the replies. I'm slightly conflicted about what to do with this rifle, since it is not mine, and the owner has never shot a muzzleloader in his life.
If it were mine, I know exactly what I would do., which is pretty much everything stated here, plus draw file the barrel to remove stamps and leave it white or rust blue it.

However..... It's not mine. And he won't know the difference unless I educate him on it, and even then, he might not have the passion for HC that we do.

Add on to that, I have three guns in various stages of completion and this will only delay finishing them.

I think I will let him drive what we do after I present him with options. It's a win-win for me, as I get to introduce somebody to muzzleloader building/shooting and have an excuse to the Mrs. For spending time in the shop.
Might end up a standard TC, might end up something better. Still will be nice to do anyway.

[deepcreekdale]

I have done the same thing as Scota on several "rebuilds" for customers. You can make a reasonably authentic 1850's 1860's generic mid west half stock if you try. Have some fun on this, plus, how many gun builders started out with T/C kits back in the 1970s' and quickly moved on to researching and building more authentic pieces. Your friend might just get hooked and join the insanity like the rest of us! Before long he might be carving beautiful pieces out of blanks. It has happened many times before.

[Mike_StL]

The T/C Hawken looks more like the rifles sold by the Hawken brothers (and J. P. Gemmer) for the local trade.  These were usually brass mounted half stocks with the single barrel wedge and the Dimmick style trigger guard.  The calibers were often 45 or smaller.  These were well regarded rifles in the St. Louis area.

You can still get the T/C Hawken conversion kits from the Hawken Shop in Washington.https://www.thehawkenshop.com/

[flehto]

I would first shoot the TC Hawken....would be a shame to do any work on the rifle and then find out that it's a "cheekslapper". Have read a few complaints on this rifle that the comb is too high and the ckeekpiece is too "fat".....Fred

[Daryl]

ALL of those TC Hawkenses were cheap slappers for me.

[Chowmi]

Fred, Daryl,
good point on the cheek slapping.  This rifle kit belongs to someone else, and I will help him with it.  He has never shot a muzzleloader before. 
I happen to have a T/C Hawken I built 23 years ago and it has never been a cheek slapper for me.  Maybe I can let him shoot mine and see if he likes how it fits before we build his. 

Cheers,
Norm