Author Topic: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?  (Read 14978 times)

Offline little joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2016, 05:50:26 AM »
I have a question? Has any body saw a serious line shooter use them? Usually if you watch them you will see what works best and what you want to apply to shooting skill,patch,ball ect.

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
  • Colorado
    • Verified Ladies  Prime Сasual Dating
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2016, 04:18:27 PM »
Big difference between target shooting and hunting.

Offline little joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2016, 09:45:45 PM »
Big difference between target shooting and hunting.
You are totally correct a big difference. I will word it different.  Has any body saw a serious hunter, line shooter, woods walk,or pistol shooter shoot them well enough to justify there cost?

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
  • Colorado
    • Verified Ladies  Prime Сasual Dating
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2016, 10:11:43 PM »
Yes...........me.  ;D


I'm not saying I use them for hunting, but if I did....this would be the reason. Since they don't bunch up the patch. They load easier. Loading easier means I can use a tighter fit in the field and still load fast. a tighter fit has always meant more velocity, flatter shooting, and more retained energy down range. Now, this would all be a small amounts and some will say it wouldn't matter. Others who are into the small details will say everything that helps is worth it.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14807
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2016, 07:36:43 PM »
I've looked at hundreds, maybe thousands of fired patches in the last 40 years, and none had a fold where the ball contacted the lands or bottoms of the grooves.  The do fold above the contact line, but never beneath it. 

I find VERY tight loads, load quite easily without a hammer, mallet or other percussive tool.  I use my hand and a short starter- but - the short starter is never used as a hammer, or mallet, as I've seen some people use them.     tap, tap, tap   ???
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
  • Colorado
    • Verified Ladies  Prime Сasual Dating
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2016, 10:07:15 PM »
I'm not trying to sell the daisy patches to anybody. The thread asked about them and I gave my opinion. I thought they worked better.

I still don't use them and cut at the muzzle. Even if it isn't the best method available.

Offline Maven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2016, 06:02:38 PM »
The idea that those patches wouldn't bunch up was the major feature mentioned by Mike Nesbitt in the review I referred to in an earlier post.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 09:23:56 PM by Maven »
Paul W. Brasky

Smoketown

  • Guest
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2016, 08:24:59 PM »
I still don't use them and cut at the muzzle. Even if it isn't the best method available.

For perfectly centered patches, I know of no better way.    ;)

Cheers,
Smoketown

Offline little joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2016, 08:29:41 PM »
 If they help you use them by all means. My personal choice is to cut them at the muzzle. Try them and don,t BS yourself, if they help use them and if they don,t save the money and put it on the powder bill.

Smoketown

  • Guest
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2016, 08:39:30 PM »
The idea that those patches wouldn't bunch up was the major feature mentioned by Mike Nesbitt in the review I mentioned in an earlier post.

Any material above the 'equator' will tend to bunch.  It's just a matter of degree.

If the material goes above the top of the ball and you have a cleaning jag on the end of your short starter or ram rod, there is a definite chance of sticking the rod/starter or depending on the thickness of the patching, pulling the ball. (Don't ask!!   ::) )  Cutting at the muzzle eliminates this.

Cheers,
Smoketown
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 08:40:00 PM by Smoketown »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12495
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2016, 09:55:54 PM »
Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?

Not!
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14807
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2016, 10:27:39 PM »
I still don't use them and cut at the muzzle. Even if it isn't the best method available.

For perfectly centered patches, I know of no better way.    ;)

Cheers,
Smoketown

Exactly - perfectly centered EVERY time, thus, to have perfectly centered patches, it is the best method.  I use precuts most of the time and they seem to work just fine, but, come to think of it, my best paper groups have just about (not EVERYTIME, but close) always been with cutting on the muzzle.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
  • Colorado
    • Verified Ladies  Prime Сasual Dating
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2016, 10:29:53 PM »
I still don't use them and cut at the muzzle. Even if it isn't the best method available.

For perfectly centered patches, I know of no better way.    ;)

Cheers,
Smoketown

True, but perfectly centered and bunched may be worse than not quite centered, but not bunched. I'd have to do a bunch of testing I don't feel like doing to know for sure. I'll just cut at the muzzle and remain in blissful ignorance. It's easier.

Smoketown

  • Guest
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2016, 04:26:19 AM »
I still don't use them and cut at the muzzle. Even if it isn't the best method available.

For perfectly centered patches, I know of no better way.    ;)

Cheers,
Smoketown

True, but perfectly centered and bunched may be worse than not quite centered, but not bunched. I'd have to do a bunch of testing I don't feel like doing to know for sure. I'll just cut at the muzzle and remain in blissful ignorance. It's easier.

Sorry, if the patch is not centered it WILL be bunched or wadded - on the long side.
The extra material has to go somewhere.

Then again, I have also seen shooters win woods walks shooting square cut denim patches in their 50's that would easily work for a 58 or 62 caliber round ball.   :o

Cheers,
Smoketown


Offline Bluesmoke

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2016, 05:57:05 AM »
Thanks everyone for your feedback.

My mates and I are experienced muzzle loader shooters (patched round ball ) in that we are experienced in club shoots (paper targets) and rendezvous ( steel targets ).

We do not hunt all all ,so that does not come into our equation.

In our past, have shot all types of patches- denim,ticking,cloth and store bought patches. When we come back in the new year the intention is once again to get all the different patch types we have shot and do a  genuine test of all these types and record them.

Naturally we will post our findings.

Thanks for your responses
happy Christmas and New years to your ,my friends

Bluesmoke

Offline EC121

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1559
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2016, 06:31:24 AM »
Having a Christmas Eve eggnog and thinking out loud here.  The part of the patch around the ball that goes in the rifling doesn't know if it is centered on the pre-cut patch or not.  It should go in the same each time.  The bunching would be above the ball and might be off center some but should part company with the ball upon exiting the muzzle.   Cutting from a strip of material at the muzzle is about the same as an off-center patch as far as bunching is concerned, but cutting removes the bunched patching (or at least makes it equal and nice looking) all the way around the ball.  Bunching is just more visible on a pre-cut patch because we can't trim it off.  Since I just shoot for fun and some deer hunting, I will use my pre-cuts and let the loose ends drag.
Brice Stultz

yardhunter

  • Guest
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2016, 08:18:34 AM »
I don't buy patches anymore. I simply cut my own. Square patches works for me the same way round ones do. 
I believe in keeping loading the gun simple. If interested, here's how I do it:


Smoketown

  • Guest
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2016, 08:11:36 PM »
Having a Christmas Eve eggnog and thinking out loud here.  The part of the patch around the ball that goes in the rifling doesn't know if it is centered on the pre-cut patch or not.  It should go in the same each time.  The bunching would be above the ball and might be off center some but should part company with the ball upon exiting the muzzle.   Cutting from a strip of material at the muzzle is about the same as an off-center patch as far as bunching is concerned, but cutting removes the bunched patching (or at least makes it equal and nice looking) all the way around the ball.  Bunching is just more visible on a pre-cut patch because we can't trim it off.  Since I just shoot for fun and some deer hunting, I will use my pre-cuts and let the loose ends drag.


Too much eggnog last night therefore, I hope my typing is more clear than my vision ... and/or thinking.

For those inclined toward "PII" (Col. Coopers "Preoccupation with Inconsequential Increases"), one can make a starter from a block of wood with a round ball dimple in it.

Lay your patching across the muzzle and using "the block", short start the ball to just past the "equator", now without nicking the ball, cut the patch and there will be NO material bunched or wadded above the ball and the patch will be perfectly centered.

One could also vary the depth of the dimple to adjust just how much material remains above the "equator" until they get the results desired.

As mentioned previously, MY shooting ability (or inability) does not warrant that much experimentation.  ;)

Now, who has slo-mo footage of multiple PRB's being fired with a full charge of powder so we can ascertain where the patch parts company with the ball?

Cheers,
Smoketown


Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14807
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2016, 10:53:04 PM »
Pletch did these videos - couple years ago, IIRC.

Due to the centrifugal force of the spinning ball, the patch flared upon leaving the muzzle crown, then appeared to drop back behind the ball within an inch or inches leaving the muzzle.  Due to the patch's velocity however, the patch followed the ball some yards past the muzzle as we all know from looking for fired patches.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Mad Monk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1033
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2016, 10:55:45 PM »
A past president of the NMLRA is a regular at Dixon's Gunmakers Fair.  When the subject of precut patches or muzzle cut patches comes up he usually grins and walks away.  One year on a bet he used precut at Friendship and set a new national record with them.

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
  • Colorado
    • Verified Ladies  Prime Сasual Dating
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2016, 11:02:08 PM »
He'd set a record every year with daisy patches. :D

rfd

  • Guest
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2016, 01:34:55 AM »
A past president of the NMLRA is a regular at Dixon's Gunmakers Fair.  When the subject of precut patches or muzzle cut patches comes up he usually grins and walks away.  One year on a bet he used precut at Friendship and set a new national record with them.

some folks can also make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

knowing i'm at best a mediocre shot with a flinter, i'll continue to use muzzle cut patch strips to put the patch concentric issue in my favor.

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
  • Colorado
    • Verified Ladies  Prime Сasual Dating
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2016, 02:04:39 AM »
What difference will it make as long as the cut patch is centered enough to cover the sides of the ball?

Offline little joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2016, 07:19:24 PM »
We all comment when we haven,t try,ed something(I,m in that group also) so I  got some from a friend and try,ed them and the result for me was I could not tell any difference in them and cutting at the muzzle. Cutting at the muzzle a lot cheaper.

Offline OldMtnMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
  • Colorado
    • Verified Ladies  Prime Сasual Dating
Re: Daisy cut patches- cost effective or not ?
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2016, 12:56:53 AM »
Did you notice they load a little easier, or is it just my imagination?