Hacker Martin Rifle on GunBroker

[Sequatchie Rifle]

This morning there is a Hacker Martin rifle listed for sale on GunBroker with a $1375 buy it now option. This is a very good price for a Hacker Martin gun. I've got no stake in this auction, just saw it and wanted to pass it on.

[iloco]

The lid on the patch box does not look right to me.  It is extending over the Butt Stock if I am viewing it right.

[Molly]

The lid is probably open, not latched close. 

[WadePatton]

I don't see it, maybe it sold already. But I'm yet distracted by originals and could have missed it. How is it listed?

[Hungry Horse]

 I saw a Hacker Martin rifle for sale at a local gun show a few years ago. Compared to modern builders, his work is pretty crude. The carving was quite heavy, and so was the gun,and the finish was very dark. In fact the finish almost totally hid the beautiful maple stocks curl. After having read Foxfire five until it literally fell apart, I was quite disappointed when I actually got to handle one of his creations in the flesh.

  Hungry Horse

[Molly]

I would say they did not give him the name "Hacker" without just reason.  If current makers turned out work like that today I wonder how successful they would be?

Of course should I ever try to make a rifle I'm sure the name Hatchet Molly would be duly bestowed.

[SCLoyalist]

Rifle is still there; I found it by typing "Hacker" into the search engine line.   It's item no.   609566530

Does look a bit crude compared to many of today's, but an interesting piece of history of the muzzleloading renaissance as described in Foxfire 5.

[WadePatton]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/609566530

Found it.  Hadn't been there in a while and forgot the navigations and was looking at all the other custom ML guns and...oh my.

Now I'll look at that one.  Yes, comments so far reflect what I expected.

The patchbox release is busted that's why the lid is ajar in all photos.   Make a fine wall-hanger or thief distraction. 

Or Katy could bar the door.

[oldtravler61]

   In all do respect to Hacker. I have seen a few of his guns. Even a miniature that he built. As the years progressed you could see a diffinate change in the ability of his work. But then again age has away of doing that to all of us. We also should remember he made most of the parts himself. Imo.    Oldtravler

[DBoone]

To judge what Hacker did compared to some of the work being done today is totally wrong, IMHO.

Hacker was a "bridge" that kept things going during the lull between muzzleloaders and the more modern cartridge guns, so that one day the rest of us could take some of our guns way past the point of what even the "best of the originals" were.

He helped Lester Smith become the engraver and gunmaker he was during his short life and influenced countless others of his time.  We owe Hacker a lot. 

I received a letter from Hacker in 1970, about 6 months before he died.  In it he noted the up and coming fine gunmakers, "Wallace Gusler and John Bivins".  I gave Wallace and John a copy of this letter. 

Hacker had his ways but don't we all.  A true gunmaking hero in my book.   To be able to own any of his work.....good, bad or ugly.....would be an honor.

[Shreckmeister]

Conversely, I just saw a very nicely made Hacker Martin pistol.  The workmanship was very nice, but it wasn't carved.

[Ky-Flinter]

Here's a pistol by Mr. Martin, displayed at the CLA show in 2009.  Hand forged barrel and definitely NOT a hack job.



-Ron

[WadePatton]

All due respect to Mr. Martin-but what it is is what it be.  I have full admiration for his part in the 60-70's revival of BP interests. 

But also the gun is what it is, whether he made it early or late or however. Shouldn't we be able to comment accurately on such works without fear of offending fans and relatives or otherwise?

There's always a gulf between production work and custom-hobby-commissioned work. Then there are others.

[Hungry Horse]

What I was saying about Hacker Martin's work, was more a comment on the progress the hobby has made over the years, rather than ridiculing his gun building skills. I truly believe that some of the builders today far surpass the work done by the old masters. Hacker inspired many of them, and preserved much of the technology of the times that would have been lost.

  Hungry Horse

[DBoone]

Amen, Hungry Horse....well said!

[Bob Roller]

All due respect to Mr. Martin-but what it is is what it be.  I have full admiration for his part in the 60-70's revival of BP interests. 

But also the gun is what it is, whether he made it early or late or however. Shouldn't we be able to comment accurately on such works without fear of offending fans and relatives or otherwise?

There's always a gulf between production work and custom-hobby-commissioned work. Then there are others.

Hacker Martin was involved in building muzzle loaders long before anyone reading this
was involved with them.
Major Ned Roberts visited him in the 1940's and watched him make a double set trigger and inlet
a barrel. Get a copy of The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle by him and learn a lot about what once was.
To be sure Hacker was not as good a maker as many working today but he helped to keep muzzle
loaders alive even if it was life support.Major Roberts passed away in 1948.

Bob Roller

[realtorone]

Well said Bob

George

[BOB HILL]

Yes, Don,and what a bridge that was. I don't think many realize how much knowledge he did pass on.....Bob

[n stephenson]

Like everyone else here I wore my copy of Foxfire 5 out literally as in I`m on my second copy the first fell completely apart. The first time I saw some of Mr. Martin`s work I didn't think it was terrible or any thing like that heck, I`ve done worse and I`ve seen a LOT worse from people with a lot more to work with than him.To compare Mr.Martin`s work with modern work is not appropriate . To start out  with when he was building there was  very little to no access to new parts period . I don`t know for sure but, I would bet that 95% of the research material we have now was produced since the time of his death. There was no internet for him to jump on everytime he hit a snag and ask somebody how to get out of it. It is easy to be an armchair quarterback anybody can do that but, when you want to know how good Hacker Martin was. Unplug your computer. throw out your reference books , Take down your flourecent lights and put up one incandescent bulb.  He probably had a bandsaw and maybe an electric hand drill.This is speculation on my part I have no idea what he had but I`m sure it was sparce by today~s standards. Now go get a couple of broken up originals this is your parts set  I hope you know how to freshen that bore and that lock needs a few new springs or perhaps a frizzen . Oh yeah if your using set triggers get ready to make them. We might as well pick out a nice Maple board to start with, no pre carves here and be prepared to inlet that barrel and ramrod yourself.If your lucky maybe you can salvage some usable hardware if not just do like Hacker and make your own.Keep us posted on your progress. I fully realize that there are people on this site capable of all this , But I bet they are VERY few. I never met the man but, I can tell you that that everybody that enjoys this sport owes this man respect. RIP Hacker Martin

[oldtravler61]

  Nate well said. I have wore out my copy too! The book is one of the reasons I try to do everything I can.  Trying to do what Hacker an Herchel have done with simple hand tool's amazes me! R.I.P Hacker if you only knew how much you have done for muzzeloading. Mike

[Sequatchie Rifle]

He was a pretty amazing guy if you stop to think about it from a difference perspective- it was. Those were different times, no internet where you could research and buy anything you needed to build literally anything. He built his guns from scratch, not parts kits.  He used old Ford axles for barrels, build his own rifling jigs, used hand-me-down files and old blacksmithing tools. He was completely self taught.

[Bob Roller]

All due respect to Mr. Martin-but what it is is what it be.  I have full admiration for his part in the 60-70's revival of BP interests. 

But also the gun is what it is, whether he made it early or late or however. Shouldn't we be able to comment accurately on such works without fear of offending fans and relatives or otherwise?

There's always a gulf between production work and custom-hobby-commissioned work. Then there are others.

Hacker Martin was involved in building muzzle loaders long before anyone reading this
was involved with them.
Major Ned Roberts visited him in the 1940's and watched him make a double set trigger and inlet
a barrel. Get a copy of The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle by him and learn a lot about what once was.
To be sure Hacker was not as good a maker as many working today but he helped to keep muzzle
loaders alive even if it was life support.Major Roberts passed away in 1948.

Bob Roller

A follow up to my letter.Major Roberts book mentioned has a fairly good description of Hacker Martin's
barrel making. No mention of Ford axles or any other make. They were HARD and prone to break at the most
inopportune times and trying to drill one for a gun barrel would have been impossible even in Bill Large's shop.
Hacker spoke of forging a barrel from flat steel and it was a LABOR INTENSIVE process to say the least.
Locks were made or remade for use as needed with no mention of any precise fitting. One rifle mentioned was a flint lock made in 1942 for the Kimball Arms Co. of Woburn,Mass. and a good description is given.These old books are wonderful references for those interested in muzzle loaders and other than my own
rare mention of them I have seen no comments on this forum. Walter Cline's book,The Muzzle Loading Rifle Then and Now is another good one more
dedicated to the round ball guns than Ned Roberts. My own interests are about 65% for Roberts because he grew up in the era of target shooting at ranges beyond 60 yards and rifles that were precision instruments as defined by those times. He was born in 1866 and was trained in shooting skills by an uncle who
was a sniper in the Union Army during the Uncivil War.Good man to learn from IMHO.

Bob Roller

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[WadePatton]

I do apologize for getting the timeline incorrect and have learned better.  Thanks for the teaching.

[Molly]

Holding at $600 with a day to go.  Any speculation on the final bid??  I have an idea.  I'm going to write it down on a sheet of paper and after the auction I'll reveal my "guess" 

[Molly]

Well the auction has ended and now let me open my little folded note to see if I guessed the final price.  Drum roll please.............
Why imagine that, my guess was $600!  The exact amount bid.