The long wait

[ltdann]

Back in Mid-October, I ordered a Lancaster kit with an extra curly maple stock.  Is it normal to wait 3 months for stock carving?

[Joe S.]

I wouldnt think so and if so you should have received a phone call for B/O product ect.Call them

[flehto]

Freshly profiled precarves are  worth waiting for....whereas precarves that sat in inventory can be warped and twisted...but w/ immediate delivery. So...count your blessings that no doubt will be a really good precarve.  Further...your choice of "special wood" could be the hold up. Patience is req'd when building a MLer and also when expecting delivery......Fred

[EC121]

Depends on the provider, but I wouldn't call it normal to be that slow.  I have been waiting since August for a barrel to be inlet into my wood, but I know the provider has some personal and family health issues.

[Joe S.]

Wouldn't you think a quality provider would go over the details before hand?When I went down this road the folks went over everything from the differences in wait time for that perfect piece of wood to a few parts that would be on back order.It was all spelled out ahead of time.Personal emergencys aside the man should have received a phone call or he should have been informed during the ordering process,three months?

[ltdann]

Thanks gents.  I do get that a good product is worth waiting for.  When I placed my order and opted for the better maple, 6-8 weeks was what was discussed.  As 8 weeks passed, I called and it went to 8-12 weeks.  No explanation given except the carver was working. 

What bothers me is the lack of a "projected" date and the unanswered emails.  Anyway, I'm concerned.  Thanks.

[FlintFan]

Unless you are dealing directly with the stock carver themselves, it is almost impossible for a retailer to know when and what they are going to get from said carver.  All they can go by is past delivery history, and that is probably what they were projecting their estimates on. 

This is a cottage industry where production capacity is almost non-existent when compared to other industries.  Having known stock carvers in the past, and how they work, the delay could be a result of literally anything, i.e. being sick, not liking to run a particular stock pattern, taking an unannounced month off to hunt, broken machinery...etc.  Or it could be as simple as not having high grade wood on hand, which even the carver might not know when he can get again. 

If you are in a real hurry, I would look for other wood grade options if they are available, because to put it bluntly, two months is nothing but a blink of the eye for how long I have seen it to take to get a good pre-carve.   

Good luck.

[ltdann]

Unless you are dealing directly with the stock carver themselves, it is almost impossible for a retailer to know when and what they are going to get from said carver.  All they can go by is past delivery history, and that is probably what they were projecting their estimates on. 

This is a cottage industry where production capacity is almost non-existent when compared to other industries.  Having known stock carvers in the past, and how they work, the delay could be a result of literally anything, i.e. being sick, not liking to run a particular stock pattern, taking an unannounced month off to hunt, broken machinery...etc.  Or it could be as simple as not having high grade wood on hand, which even the carver might not know when he can get again. 

If you are in a real hurry, I would look for other wood grade options if they are available, because to put it bluntly, two months is nothing but a blink of the eye for how long I have seen it to take to get a good pre-carve.   

Good luck.

Not in a hurry, per se.  The early winter months are slow for me and I'd planned to devout a lot of shop time to the ML and ordered based on the projected delivery time.  Unfortunately, that shop time is slipping away quickly, which is disappointing more than anything.

I appreciate the explanation and understand it.

[Darkhorse]

Check with your provider about shipping you the rest of the parts now. You can spend a lot of shop time filing and polishing your rough castings and you will be that much farther ahead when the wood does show up. There is also a lot of lock work to be done, most people save the lock tuning and polishing for one of the last steps. I don't see why a lot of it couldn't be done now.

[Nordnecker]

^ That's good advice. I remember when I wanted to build my first ML and thought it was just a matter of a phone call and a credit card. I quickly found out it wasn't that simple. It seems there's always something you just can't get your hands on. Since then, I've sorta managed to stay ahead of my builds.
Waiting sucks. I ordered a nice, warm coat last winter and after they took my credit card #, they said it was backordered and I could expect delivery by August. Really, AUGUST?? 

[Jim Chambers]

Itdann is probably waiting on a stock from us.  We keep around 50 (plus or minus) stock in inventory, but around 75% of the orders we get are for something we don't have on hand.  When a stock is not on hand we order the specific type and the specific grade of wood from our stock carver and then wait for him to deliver.  Keep in mind he is carving all the stocks for Track of the Wolf and for Dunlap as well as all the stocks we order.  He's a one man shop.  He tries to fill our orders as quickly as possible, but it is not unusual for us to wait 6 to 12 weeks for a shipment of stocks.  Adding to our frustration is we order a specific grade of wood and receive everything except the grade we needed.  The carver tries to select the right grade, but sometimes a fancy stock blank will turn out to be rather plain once it is carver, or a standard grade will be much better than expected when it is finished.  When that happens and we don't receive the stock we needed we have to reorder and hope it comes in in the next shipment.
Believe me, waiting on stocks is just as frustrating for us as it is for you.  We know there's money hanging out there just waiting for us to grab it, but we can't until we are ready to ship the order.  We're definitely not delaying anyone's order.  As soon as we get the stocks we ship them right out.
Several guys have suggested we go to another carver for our stocks.  The problem with that is there is no one else doing what he does.  Track even bought their own machine and tried to make stocks and could not.  We don't have the space, time or money to even attempt to make the stocks ourselves.  So,  we have only two choices, either wait on our stock carver to deliver what we need or just go out of business.  Believe me, had Barbie not taken over the rifle kit business when she did I would have closed down that part of the business years ago and just made locks.
I hope this will help explain why we can't be like Amazon and deliver your order the next day.  We are doing the best we can with what we have to work with.

[bob in the woods]

What with all the technology today, maybe they'll have self carving stocks soon 

[ltdann]

All,

Thanks for the explanations. It makes infinitely more sense to me then it did before.  I realized that it was a cottage business very early on but was unaware of just how small it really is.  This ML building is really more of an art-form than anything else.

To recap what I've learned (that's what this adventure is all about, after all!)

1) 3 months is really not that long to wait for a pre-carve

2) Stock carvers serve multiply retailers at once.  Not sure why that wasn't intuitive.....

3) Good things come to those that wait.

4) My building mistakes on the stock can come with potentially significant monetary AND time penalties

Thanks again, I don't know what I don't know.

[Darkhorse]

What I see for the future is more carvers will invest in Numerical Control machinery. I have a lot of experience with aircraft structural manufacturing using NC machines and It has puzzled me why only one person uses NC for stock carving.

[snapper]

I have learned a long time a go to expect delays when dealing with things like this.  Be pleasantly surprised when you get something on time.  It is just the way it is.



Fleener

[bama]

I try to plan my projects at least a year in advance. I have waited that long on a barrel. I know it's hard to wait when you have debated on what your project was going to be. Then you make the commitment to buy the parts thinking you will have your project in a few days time and start to work. Then you find out about the handful of guys that supply our hobby. These guys do a pretty good job but they can only do so much. So plan ahead and be patient.

[Bob Roller]

What I see for the future is more carvers will invest in Numerical Control machinery. I have a lot of experience with aircraft structural manufacturing using NC machines and It has puzzled me why only one person uses NC for stock carving.

NC machines probably cost as much as a small airplane and that would stop most of us.
The man that is doing it is making one fine kit and well worth the price he asks.

Bob Roller

[Jim Chambers]

My hat is off to Jim Kibler for producing his kit with NC machining.  If I was a young fellow like him I might go back to school and learn how to do that stuff.  But, I'm 70 years old and have no desire to go down that path.  Heck, I can barely find my way to this site on the computer.  More than once Jim has told me that had he known how much work was involved in setting up that operation he would have never started it.

[oldtravler61]

  If anyone decides to go into this. Look for a CNC with a multiple head tool  design. It will make life easier. Will dent your bank account a lot.  Seriously Both Jim's make awesome kits.   Oldtravler

[Jerry V Lape]

I have seen Jim Kibler's setup.  The stocks coming off the machine are really beautiful.  I can only imagine the work required to get all the inletting programmed just right along with the overall shape.  All the hardware for his kits is a visual feast!  I hope he adds some more styles such as Lehigh or transitional Lancaster.  But I assume that will require a lot of down time on the machine to get setup and with all the orders he has for the current kit it is doubtful  he gets to it soon. 

[Jim Kibler]

Thanks guys.  I will split off a topic with a bit of an update on our kit business.

Jim