Author Topic: Schroyer (Attributed) 090417-1  (Read 11752 times)

Offline nord

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Schroyer (Attributed) 090417-1
« on: April 17, 2009, 02:38:55 PM »

The carved side of the butt stock of this rifle was pictured by Shumway in his monograph of George Schreyer. (page 33)

Here are some measurements; barrel 45" oct to round approx .58 cal.; lop 13"; height of butt stock

4&3/8"; width of butt stock 1&13/16"; drop at heel of butt stock 3&1/4" ; approximate wt 6&3/4 lbs.

A fair amount of restoration done to this rifle. I know that topic is frequently discussed on this forum as to what should or should not be done. This rifle illustrates my opinion for what it is worth.When I obtained this rifle it was in pieces, having been broken through the wrist. A brass band that was applied around the wrist as a period repair had been removed. The fore stock was missing from just in front of the rear entry pipe to the muzzle. The lock and lock bolt plate were also missing as well as the toe plate. My mission in restoration was to return the rifle to it's original appearance based solely on what we knew, no added embellishments based on desirable details that may or may not have existed originally. The lock is a modern replacement (Hollenbaugh's Ditchburn Lock) It fit the mortise as if it had grown there excepting the nose needed 1/8" added to fill the mortise. The side plate was cut to fit the existing mortise and left un-engraved. The ram rod thimbles were fashioned to match the original rear pipe which was still intact. Care was taken to retain the original finish on areas of the rifle that were not damaged. The butt stock was in a remarkable state of preservation. Perhaps the fact that the wrist was so badly broken took the rifle out of service and therefore preserved the beautiful carving on the cheek piece side and the engraving on the patch box. The rifle has, as they say, "had a lot done to it" but I am not ashamed of what I have had done nor do I think it the least bit inappropriate. I had this work professionally done at no small cost but I think the results speak for them self. This surely is not a rifle for the "advanced" collector but with  intact untouched Kentuckys priced in the stratosphere I feel blessed to own this rifle.


A classic early Shroyer rifle, to be sure. It appears that it must have a patchbox and it would be nice to have some photos of that feature, the lock and the side plate. Full length photos would also be appreciated, as the forearm carving is very fine and worth looking at.
Lots to contemplate on this gun; fine carving, tasteful inlays, and good, good architecture.
Nice rifle, but I'd like to see the other side for the library as well.
Do I see a wedding band for a octagon/round barrel, or is that just the picture?

This is a nice Schroyer with many of his characteristic details, and very fine butt architecture. This same rifle is pictured at the beginning of Shumway's book "George Schrerer , Sr. & Jr." However, Shumway takes the same frustrating step of not showing the front side of butt, so we cannot see the patchbox and lock. From the photos above, the lower side leaf and hinge can be seen, so there IS a box there.

Schreyer did indeed use tang carvings other than the fleur-de le. If you are fortunate enough to have Shumway's book some variations are illustrated. I also believe that Mel Hankla has detailed photos of a some what "nontypical" Shroyer at his American historic services web site.
Koons Association (See Collectors Board) - Comments below are valid, but may have been taken out of context.

Koons was closely associated with Schreyer, maybe a journeyman. I think an apprentice because his buttplate differed from any Schreyer. Note the shape and the very long tang of the buttplate. No Schreyer is like this. Look at No. 52 in Shumway's Schreyer book. Identical buttplate. On this gun note the paralell lines on the patchbox lid engraving, how far they are from the edge. Identical on both the gun here and the Koons gun in Shumways book. Yet Schreyer did this as well sometimes. The gun pictured does not have , just seeing the tail of it, the typical Koons sideplate, but certainly he may have varied this. The overall flavor of the work, not in it's style, but in it's execution, is very Koons and less Schreyer.

After review of the comments I wish to add a few of my own...

On first review the rifle is so Shroyeresque that I'd not question the maker, except to note that Sr. and Jr. were both in the business. I'd further note that Schroyer rifles are invariably somewhat different one from another.

This particular rifle has a bit more squared off architecture around the butt than I'm used to in a Schroyer. The rifle displays incised carving rather than relief carving to the rear of the cheekpiece. These two details admittedly give me some pause. But the patchbox... It says Schroyer all over as does the relief to the rear of the tang.

I'm comfortable with a Schroyer attribution though I believe we'd be remiss not to state that this rifle may well be the product of the Schroyer shop rather than made directly by George or Jr. Schroyer.

We can speculate on the actual maker and we can speculate on circumstance. Being unsigned the particulars will be forever lost to time.

What isn't lost is the connection to Schroyer. George Schroyer influenced the building of this fine rifle either directly or indirectly. The quality and style is obvious even if the hand is not.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 11:05:23 PM by Dennis Glazener »
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