Smoothbore Question

[pushboater]

In reguards to the mid to late 1700 French Fusils, was .28 Gauge fairly common? I haven't read a whole lot on the subject yet, but the few articles I have read seem to give conflicting opinions.

David

[redheart]

From what I've read the most popular in the 1800's were 20 gauge, although .77 existed. And the 28 gauge was quite popular from 1730 to 1765 according
to the book "Colonial Frontier Guns by T. M. Hamilton". Quote "There were two distinct guns given or traded to the Indians by the French: the fusil de traite (tradegun) and the Fusil de Chasse (hunting gun). The documentary references to the Fusil de Chasse are always by that name and there is no question as to what they refer, but the specifications could apply to any type gun, so far as we are concerned today. All we know is that it had an excellent reputation, that it was always made in 28 caliber, and that most of them were made at Tulle". I'm not an expert but just passing on what I've read. This book has some amazing info and you should buy it if you can find it!

[Mike Brooks]

Yes, fairly common. Keep in mind these were light barrels, big at the breech and tapering rapidly in the fist 8 to 10 inches. Something around 1 1/8" at the breech and having barrel walls about 1/16" thick at the muzzle, usually no flare at the muzzle.

[Hungry Horse]

I believe I read somewhere that .24 was the most common bore size for trade guns. The French did build some pretty small guns. There are references to a "petite fusee" in the writings of the times.

  Hungry Horse

[pushboater]

Thanks Redheart and Mike. On Mike's suggestion I just ordered a copy of "The French trade Gun in North America". I'll also look around for "Colonial Frontier Guns". Thanks!

David

[Longknife]

Capt. D,  You will enjoy those books. One thing to remember is that the French "gauge" is based on a "livre" which is 489.50 grams.  When the French designated the gauge, or caliber, they are designating the size of ball that is to be used in that barrel.  Soooo..When the French specify "28 gauge", that is 28 balls to the "livre" which is a .563 dia. ball, AND a 28 gauge ball would be used in a minimum bore size of .577 and, considering manufacturing tolerances of the time, could be used in a bore as large as .623!!!! (According to Hamilton) Now. our modern English "gauge" chart is based on a pound which is 453.6 grams, AND the English "gauge" chart is based on actual bore size.    Sooo...this .577 bore size is considered in the English "gauge" chart as 24 gauge and the closest to duplicating the bore size of a "28 gauge" French Fusil would be a .24 gauge or (.58 cal.) and up to a 19 gauge (.626 cal) bore, according to the English gauge chart.....
  ALSO>>>The Fusil De Chase is usually considered as always being made with 28 gauge barrels as that was the most common, but an inventory in 1711  of the 500 Fusils de Chasse for Canada stock piled in the storehouses at Rochefort, 198  had calibers of 18 balls per livre or bores of .689 to .732, according to Hamiltons' gauge chart. That would be 14 to 12 gauge on the English chart..
 AND...to further confuse things, A "French  Fusil" is considered any "light flintlock musket", and there are several sub categories of Fusils, each made for a specific purpose and each have different characteristics' and often times different calibers too!!!....Have fun exploring these books,,,,Regards,,,Ed   

[Mike Brooks]

Thanks Redheart and Mike. On Mike's suggestion I just ordered a copy of "The French trade Gun in North America". I'll also look around for "Colonial Frontier Guns". Thanks!

David

You'll enjoy both of those.

[pushboater]

Now that's some interesting information Ed. So I guess the .28 gauge barrel I ordered is a bit undersized in regards to being historically correct! Oh well, hopefully at least, it'll end up being slim and trim! I guess I should have waited to start ordering parts AFTER I read the books! LOL 

David

[Mike Brooks]

Looking through "The French Trade Gun in North America" by Gladysz "most" of the trade guns are  a measured .62 . Bores then range on up  to .70. Probably .55 is on the small side but I'm sure they were made.

[pushboater]

One of the nicest Fowlers I ever handled looked like a 275 year old original, but he said it was only about 20 years old. It was very slim, weighed next to nothing, and came to the shoulder so fast it was scary! It had a 46" 28ga barrel. Except for the English style stock, that's the kind of lightness and handling quality I'd like to achieve. And I can't deny that having a Chambers Early Lancaster in .54 cal carried a little weight when deciding on my choice of gauge. The barrel I ordered is a 28ga Colerain "B" weight octagon to round barrel. I think it'll work just fine in helping to achieve my goals, although a little on the small side historically speaking.

David

[Longknife]

David, There is plenty of info in those books to justify a true 28 bore,,,

[Long John]

Friends,

To add a little to this discussion, the gram, the unit of mass in the metric system, was first used in a practical context in 1799 when France adopted a new system of weights and measures, "le systeme metric" (the metric system) in the aftermath of the dethroning of the King.  So, a bore designation for guns in use during the 7 Years War, almost 50 years before the revolution, was probably not predicated upon metric equivalences.

In my study I have found that in general French guns were smaller in bore than their English counterparts.  I have seen numerous antique French fusils of 28, 24 and 20 gauge on auction sites, etc.   A 28 gauge gun is nice!  But a little light for turkey if shooting hail-shot.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[pushboater]

Thanks Long John.  Ed, haven't seen you chime in for a while now! Good to hear you're still kicking! I'll try and give you a call next time I'm in town and maybe stop by for a visit. I'd like to get myself one of your coneing tools. Started on that Swivel Breech Yet?

David

[Longknife]

David, give me a call next time you come up this way. I haven't started on that SWbreech yet, still working on the SXS.......Ed