50 and 100 yard patched ball

[Heavies]

Being target shooter, I was wondering what caliber recommendations are there for a rifle shooting a patched round ball at these distances?  I have a .45 but have not yet a serious attempt at grouping at 100 yards.  At 50 it seems to do well standing off hand and at the bench.

How do you regulate your sights for shooting zeroing at these distances?  I've heard of "stepping" the front post (maybe the wrong term?)?  Does anyone have a picture of what that would look like?

[snapper]

In my RB target rifles I simply change the amount of powder to hit at the different ranges.  I might also have to change my sight picture in addition to the powder.  Just depends on the rifle.  I keep a book for the different rifles with pictures or sight description and amount of powder.

A .40 cal rifle will easily shoot nice groups at 100 yards.  I try to keep my rifles to either .40 cal or .54 cal.

fleener

[Standing Bear]

I e used .45 and .50 w good success but now only .40 and .54. Depends on powder charge and height of sight above centerline of bore. I'm able to shoot 25 and 50 yards w 50 gr in my 40 then increase to 75 gr for same sight picture at 100.
TC

[smylee grouch]

What type of competition are you interested in. If you shoot in any NMLRA events, most of the bench aggregate's will also have a 200 yard match so you might consider something of bigger cal. I have a 52 cal for those kinds of matches and consider it marginal at 200 when the breeze's get up there.

[Hungry Horse]

In my opinion target shooting at the ranges you mentioned would be pretty easy with a .40, or a .45 Caliber gun, and not too hard on the shooter in a long drawn out match. More important than caliber is the rate of twist. One in 48" which is a pretty standard twist in a .40 caliber barrel is a very good combination. On the other hand, a .45 caliber barrel seems to favor a 1 in 56" twist, which is a little harder to find. As the calibers go up the "sweet" twist rate does as well. So, the amount of powder require to make your gun perform can become in itself a problem. Having a gun that shoots well, and doesn't fatigue the shooter on the long haul, is the ballance you have to find.

  Hungry Horse

[P.W.Berkuta]

I favor a .45 cal for hunting up to 100 yds. If I have to go beyond that I go with a .54. Although if it's only paper punching I like the .45.

[Heavies]

Thank you for all the replies.  Looks like .40 .45 is most popular, and larger if going out to longer distance.  obviously .45 to .54+ for med game.

Here in Hawaii there is no real competitions for traditional BP shooting.  Just for my own pleasure.  Hoping more people get into it and maybe some day have some interest in having formal matches.  The group that shoots muzzle loaders is somewhat small, but very friendly and helpful, but no match competitions.  I do get a lot of questions from many modern rifle shooters and interest in what I'm doing the few times, thus far, I've been out to the range with my flint. 

For the .40 shooters, does the wind really mess with you at 100 yards vs. .45? 

.40 vs .45 in the accuracy department?

[smylee grouch]

The wind will mess you up with almost any cal. If you can shoot a good group in the center on a calm day take note and then shoot a good group on a windy day. You will see the difference and if you shoot organized competition where there is only an inch from one scoring ring to the next, it will put you out of the competition with 5 drifted shots.

[Standing Bear]

There is no caliber more accurate nor is one not affected by wind.  I've shot everything from .32 to .58 in matches.

A wind that will move a .58 say 2" @ 100 yds may move a .40 say 4" or whatever but the shooter needs to know how HIS ball and load is moved and then still correctly read the wind (quartering or right angle or...12 mph or 15 mph or ...). My .40 w 100 yd load has been chronographed at 2150 fps  - it ain't in the wind long but it is moved. A friend did well at 100 yds w a .32 using 85 gr fffg.  I don't know what it would have chronographed but it was hauling it. "For the .40 shooters, does the wind really mess with you at 100 yards vs. .45?"  No.

Re inherent accuracy: in offhand shooting it is very much how the gun fits the shooter such as LOP, drop, width of butt plate, balance, consistent cheek contact etc is more pronounced in a heavy recoiling caliber.  I'm not recoil sensitive and actually enjoy shooting big bores.  But if I don't get everything right in stance and hold it will show up down range. So a lower recoiling caliber has a slight advantage.

I believe there to be a small advantage to a longer sight radius.  All the above plus my affinity for iron mounted long rifles influenced  my choice of a .40 SMR w a 7/8" x 42" straight barrel.   Being in Hawaii will make it difficult for u to handle mani different style guns but try. Your choice of style may influence your caliber choice too.  .58 wouldn't be too unusual in say a mountain rifle, trade gun or Jaeger but I doubt there were many of those made in .32, .40 or even .45.

Enjoy the journey and don't get too hung up picking your first as there will be more.  I'm thinking I "need" a trade gun in 20 ga - flintlock of course.
TC

[Darkhorse]

When I was shooting competition I used the only rifle I had at the time, a caplock .54, this was a long time ago. When the paper punching bug hit me, it hit hard and I spent many hours at a benchrest doing load development and learning how to regulate my rifle. The bottom line is all the matches I attended shot at 25 and 50 yards, with usually a cross stick at 100. Using 55 grains of 2fg I was shooting pretty much dead on at both 25 and 50 yards. Stepping up to 90 grains of 2fg put me dead on at 100. After all that bench shooting it ended up pretty simple.
I have since done basically the same thing with a couple more .54's though not as thoroughly as these were hunting rifles and flintlocks.
After completing a .40 flintlock that was built for turkey hunting I regulated it with 3fg. At the time I had intentions of shooting a few matches but never did.
25 grains dead center a 25 yards.
30 grains from 25 out to near 50 yards.
40 grains at 50 yards.
50 to 55 grains at 100 yards.
These numbers are very close but it's been a few years since I rung out the .40 and I didn't write it all down.
I also shot some 60 grain groups at 100. My eyes were much older and the front sight had a glare from the bright sun but I still managed to keep a few 5 shot groups around 3.5 to 4 inches.
This rifle has a Rice barrel and I guess I'm lucky in that it can shoot tiny groups at all those loadings. I've read that a lot of .40's can't do that.

[Heavies]

All this is really great to hear.  I forgot to mention as well.  Black powder is sometimes hard to get out here. So it is really good to hear I'm not giving up anything, wind wise, on my .45, or if I get into a .40.  I try to be miserly on powder usage and get more shots out of a pound. 

All of your experience and sharing is much appreciated.

[Daryl]

The larger the calibre, the greater the POTENTIAL for shooting smaller groups.

The larger the calibre, the greater the recoil which can reduce the shooter's ability to benefit from the better 'terminal' ballistics of the larger calibre, which would then reduce the potential.

Last time out shooting, for example, I found I can no longer 'handle' the recoil of my .69 calibre rifle, thus my 100 yard accuracy suffered greatly. Loss of eye-sight for open sights also plays a part in this equation.

My .50 cal. rifle seems to be performing now and am looking forward to shooting some 100 and 200 yard groups with it this coming spring and summer.

I would not attempt to shoot a rifle less than .50 cal, seriously, at 100yards.  This is merely that I have little faith in those lighter balls- it's a mind-set, I guess.
Both my .40 and .45 cal. rifles gave me 1/2", 5 shot groups at 50yards, so the potential is there to do well at 100 - I just never tried them at that range and now they are both sold, I cannot try them. Couple guys needed accurate rifles, so I sold them. Now, I have to compete against those rifles - story of my life- so far, so good.

[Standing Bear]

Your results are similar to mine Darkhorse. My 40 is a Douglas barrel 1:66 twist.  I use 50 gr FFg at 25 and 50 yds then 75 gr at 100.  Same sight picture.

I'd think w a 1:48 twist good accuracy would be had w 40 and 60 gr.
TC

[hanshi]

Actually, 60 grains and 40 grains of 3F are very accurate for me - 40grns = over 1700 fps, 60grns = near 2000 fps - in the 1-48" bore.  The faster load is + or - 3" to 4" at 100 yards which is currently my accuracy limit regardless of caliber.  My .45 (1-56") and .50 (1-66") do the same at 100 yards, my shooting accuracy limit.  I'm sure all three are capable of much smaller groups but I'm not.

[Dphariss]

The larger the calibre, the greater the POTENTIAL for shooting smaller groups.

The larger the calibre, the greater the recoil which can reduce the shooter's ability to benefit from the better 'terminal' ballistics of the larger calibre, which would then reduce the potential.

Last time out shooting, for example, I found I can no longer 'handle' the recoil of my .69 calibre rifle, thus my 100 yard accuracy suffered greatly. Loss of eye-sight for open sights also plays a part in this equation.

My .50 cal. rifle seems to be performing now and am looking forward to shooting some 100 and 20yard groups with it this coming spring and summer.

I would not attempt to shoot a rifle less than .50 cal, seriously, at 100yards.  This is merely that I have little faith in those lighter balls- it's a mind-set, I guess.
Both my .40 and .45 cal. rifles gave me 1/2", 5 shot groups at 50yards, so the potential is there to do well at 100 - I just never tried them at that range and now they are both sold, I cannot try them. Couple guys needed accurate rifles, so I sold them. Now, I have to compete against those rifles - story of my life- so far, so good.

For reasons Daryl has stated I am a fan of the 50 cal. It will do better in a shifty breeze than the 40 cal would. I like 50 cal and think its the best all around ball size for anything other than small game or stuff larger than Mule Deer. 44 to 50 were very popular back in the day when rifled bores of surviving rifles are looked at. The writings of the past "generally" support this as well. But we were not there so..... And we have to remember that in  the early 20th c. shooters  were reboring old rifles to clean them up and/or improve them.

Dan

[hanshi]

I will agree with Dphariss; the .50 prb is my idea of a caliber for anything up to, and including, black bear and larger deer.  Quite a few deer have fallen to several .50s I've owned and I still have a nice .50 that's unchristened at this time.  Although some will disagree with me on this point, IMHO, the .45 does just as well on game of this size.  More deer have been killed, by me, using a couple of .45s than with all other - .50, .54, .62 - bore sizes combined.  And I see no need to load any of these down for small game; I just use a .32, .36 or maybe a .40 in this case.

[Heavies]

The game mammals we have here are not very large.  .45 seems like it could dispatch them humanely from reading all of you guys experience with round ball.

[Hungry Horse]

Heavies;

  Are you living on an island that has no wild pigs? Some of them are like trying to stop an armored vehicle. Some big boars have the ability to sponge up bullets with little or no apparent affect. Or maybe we just grow them bigger over here in California.

  Hungry Horse

[Heavies]

Heavies;

  Are you living on an island that has no wild pigs? Some of them are like trying to stop an armored vehicle. Some big boars have the ability to sponge up bullets with little or no apparent affect. Or maybe we just grow them bigger over here in California.

  Hungry Horse

There are some large boars, however, most aren't that big.  On my island we have wild goat as well. Axis deer on the other islands are not that large.  There is also muflan sheep during limited season and only with a lottery tag.

I am not really a hunter, more target shooter.

[Dphariss]

I will agree with Dphariss; the .50 prb is my idea of a caliber for anything up to, and including, black bear and larger deer.  Quite a few deer have fallen to several .50s I've owned and I still have a nice .50 that's unchristened at this time.  Although some will disagree with me on this point, IMHO, the .45 does just as well on game of this size.  More deer have been killed, by me, using a couple of .45s than with all other - .50, .54, .62 - bore sizes combined.  And I see no need to load any of these down for small game; I just use a .32, .36 or maybe a .40 in this case.

Deer are notoriously easy to kill with decent shot placement. 22rf  or 25 Stevens RF was used out here a lot it seems to feed the family... Where one hunts can make a difference too I like the 50 or 54 because where I live 100-120 yard + shots are not unknown. The ranges I see many shooting deer from stands in the East are one reason the SB is popular in the East. In many cases a 9-10" barreled pistol would be fine too if it was legal. Even a 6" barreled 50 cal pistol making 800 fps will produce the needed penetration at 25 yards for deer.
Dan

[Standing Bear]

The original post said he's a target shooter not a hunter and already owns a .45.  I haven't owned a .45in 30+ years so related what is close w my .40.  Have a .54 and had a .50 until a little while ago but felt that info was not as close to his .45 as the .40.

I've successfully taken deer w the .40 but now use the .54 exclusively. The .40 is used for most everything else even silhouettes to 100 yds.
TC

[Skirmisher]

For what it is worth, there are abundant British and German accounts which agree that American riflemen in the Revolution generally engaged at 200 yards.  In the War of 1812 period, army riflemen were required to practice at 300 yards.  A

[hanshi]

I've killed a couple of deer at 100yds and 100yds & change with two .50s I've owned.  The farthest I've killed deer a with a .45 was a 75 yard shot.  All were DRT with minimal re-positioning.

[PA Pilgrimage]

Stepped sight...

I've seen it done two different ways.  One with 2 colors of paint.  Top is white, the lower is black.  The other is notched.  The top of the front sight is your closer shot,  the the longer shot is angle cut.  This character shows it well  <  .  The top of the sideways V is your closer shot sight.  For the longer shot, line up with the tips of the sideways V.  I could see glare being an issue with this sight.

However, the far away zero is usually 150 or 200 yards.  50 to 100 transition is rather small.

A better group can usually be resolved with a better target.  Point the tip of the front sight at the base of a round circle to have it hit in the middle of the circle.  some call it a 6 oclock hold, or an army hold.

This is that I do....

I point my gunsite at the base of a 2" gong at 25 yards and it hits more or less in the center.  Then I hit a 6 inch gong at 50 yards by touching the base of the gong with my front sight.  My 100 yard gong is still 6 inches, but it's a square gong instead of round.  I turned it 45 degrees.  I put the tip of my front sight right in the middle of the target. 

This setup works great at local woodwalk target shoots.  The farther than 50 yard shots are usually tall, so if your drop is a little low, then no big deal.....

One place I target shoot at is real windy.  I like my 54 there.

[Bob Roller]

I will agree with Dphariss; the .50 prb is my idea of a caliber for anything up to, and including, black bear and larger deer.  Quite a few deer have fallen to several .50s I've owned and I still have a nice .50 that's unchristened at this time.  Although some will disagree with me on this point, IMHO, the .45 does just as well on game of this size.  More deer have been killed, by me, using a couple of .45s than with all other - .50, .54, .62 - bore sizes combined.  And I see no need to load any of these down for small game; I just use a .32, .36 or maybe a .40 in this case.

Deer are notoriously easy to kill with decent shot placement. 22rf  or 25 Stevens RF was used out here a lot it seems to feed the family... Where one hunts can make a difference too I like the 50 or 54 because where I live 100-120 yard + shots are not unknown. The ranges I see many shooting deer from stands in the East are one reason the SB is popular in the East. In many cases a 9-10" barreled pistol would be fine too if it was legal. Even a 6" barreled 50 cal pistol making 800 fps will produce the needed penetration at 25 yards for deer.
Dan

There was a family in the Eastern Pan handle of WVa that kept meat on the table with a 25-20 WCF
and from what I heard from a game warden they did it whenever meat was needed.

Bob Roller