Author Topic: stock shaping question  (Read 5760 times)

Offline Joe S.

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stock shaping question
« on: January 29, 2017, 01:43:23 AM »
Curious about you folks with a lot of experience in shaping the stock especially the butt end.How do you best know if you have it right,Do you look at it in different light,angles to catch the shadows?How about running your fingers along it to feel high spots?any tips,I'm finding going with feel seems to be better than sight.Thinking once we get some better weather round here perhaps some natural light might help

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 01:56:39 AM »
All of the above. When the going gets real tough I take it outside and have a good looky.
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 02:23:46 AM »
With some of the lighter toned woods, I will brush on a light water based yellow stain [ food colouring]   It helps me get a better visual perspective.....and shows up any flaws/scratches .

Offline SingleMalt

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 03:04:42 AM »
Sometimes walking away for a hour or so does wonders.
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 03:36:38 AM »
Curious about you folks with a lot of experience in shaping the stock especially the butt end.How do you best know if you have it right,Do you look at it in different light,angles to catch the shadows?How about running your fingers along it to feel high spots?any tips,I'm finding going with feel seems to be better than sight.Thinking once we get some better weather round here perhaps some natural light might help
   
   It isn't how much light you have it is the angle at which the light hits the work. Shine the light a the stock at a low angle. It is like looking for a dent in a car. You don't shine the light straight at the car. You shine it at  angle down along the side. The same goes when ever you are looking at a irregularity in carving. It is like looking at for a needle on the floor. Shine the light along the floor and the needle will cast a shadow.  Low light angle is the secret.
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greybeard

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 03:55:37 AM »
When I got to stock forming I would set up a mirror and view the stock in a mirror and sometimes you can see something that you miss looking straight on. . Worked for me at least.   Bob

ron w

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 04:56:02 AM »
I get the wrist shaped, at least to the comb , the mount the butt plate and shoot for straight lines that travel from the butt plate to the wrist. no bulging in front of the butt plate just nice straight surfaces as if you laid a straight edge against the stock from the wrist to the butt plate. on the cheek side, the surfaces have to be a straight surface with the cheek rest protruding.  pay close attention to the short surface from the butt plate to the cheek piece,....it's easy to get that area out of alignment with the imaginary straight line from the but plate to the wrist because the cheek piece interrupts the lines. one trick is to make a straight edge long enough to go from the shaped area of the wrist to the butt plate, then cut out a minimal void area that would represent where the cheek piece comes off the stock's surface. this can then be used as a guide as you work that side of the stock to keep that interrupted line straight. I've found that in all the high power stocks I've made, this is one of the key areas that separates the amateur looking stocks from the professional looking ones. the other area is that the cheek piece surface should be flat(straight) from front to back whether the cheek piece is raised style or hollowed style.

Offline L. Akers

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2017, 06:52:45 AM »
I use a straight edge to get things true with no bulges or hollows from butt to wrist.  I will do the straight edge thing along the forearm, too.

ron w

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2017, 08:11:39 AM »
yup I use it along the fore arm also, but mainly in the but area where a, on the cheek side, it's relatively easy to get out of alignment. the main difficulty is that most guys are reluctant to remove enough wood and bring this lines down tight and straight. I literally had to force myself to keep on removing wood, until I had the right shapes, on my first few stocks. I think everybody goes through that, until they finally do it and realize it can be done without producing an overly weak stock. after a while you just get a feel or an eye for when to put the gouges down and grab a file or scraper. one secret is to learn how to keep your files sharp when storing them, nothing will ruin a good piece of wood like a dull file.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2017, 05:47:33 PM »
Put a straight edge on some antique KY  rifles and trade guns some time.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Joe S.

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2017, 06:11:34 PM »
LOL,Mike I'm finding the best way is like you said take it out side for a good looky.Good natural light seen at different angles seem to work for me along with feel.Long straight areas would be a place for straight edges.Thanks for the input.

ron w

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2017, 08:29:46 PM »
Put a straight edge on some antique KY  rifles and trade guns some time.
   that's not to say the lines should not be straight to be archicturealy correct. most of the original builders worked under a time element just like todays small production shops,...as hobbyists and special niche builders, we don't have to observe that condition. I would rather see  "architecturealy correct" than "comparatively similar in quality", when being comparatively similar in quality means not architectiealy correct. even the builders of those days tried to continually improve their work.

Offline Joe S.

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2017, 09:09:16 PM »
I have been working areas of the butt stock for quite a while now and can see where somebody on a time schedule would have to say enoughs enough.No major bellys or valleys,no dings ect. can see folks moving along.Now if truly building a high dollar custom I would hope some more time be spent.I'm building this for me and doing it at my pace,in my spare time and can afford to spend extra time if need be.I can also see if one hàs a few guns under their belts speed of doing things comes in as just having a trained eye for what's looking right helps big time.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2017, 01:00:44 AM »
Put a straight edge on some antique KY  rifles and trade guns some time.
   that's not to say the lines should not be straight to be archicturealy correct. most of the original builders worked under a time element just like todays small production shops,...as hobbyists and special niche builders, we don't have to observe that condition. I would rather see  "architecturealy correct" than "comparatively similar in quality", when being comparatively similar in quality means not architectiealy correct. even the builders of those days tried to continually improve their work.
If you use a straight edge on a contemporary KY rifle it will look like a contemporary KY rifle. The old guns ain't straight anywhere. All depends on what look you're after I suppose.
 I always get a kick out of one of the "How to build guns" books that are so popular. This fella uses a straight edge to shape everything and also draws out a graph on the stock to lay out carving. His guns don't look like old guns, completely sterile.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Joe S.

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2017, 02:03:01 AM »
A perfect time for his thread, do we want perfection without our own fingerprints on our creations,our own flaws as you will.I will do the best I can by eye and feel,if I wanted perfection perhaps having it totally machine made would be the ticket.My best effort is going into this build,quess my heart and soul and it will be far from perfect but it's all mine.God its sounding like drivel,tipped one to many on Sunday I fear ;D

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2017, 02:15:17 AM »
I used to think perfection with everything nice and straight was what I was after. After actually putting a straight edge on old guns I changed my mind. Now, I'm not saying there were great gobs of wood sticking up here and there but there are no perfectly straight lines on them either....I must protect my comments by stating "There are always exceptions", other wise my neck is in a noose for sure. :P
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline PPatch

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2017, 02:37:24 AM »
A perfect time for his thread, do we want perfection without our own fingerprints on our creations,our own flaws as you will.I will do the best I can by eye and feel,if I wanted perfection perhaps having it totally machine made would be the ticket.My best effort is going into this build,quess my heart and soul and it will be far from perfect but it's all mine.God its sounding like drivel,tipped one to many on Sunday I fear ;D

Naw, you sound about right. People in our modern machine made everything world are becoming unused to "handmade." That isn't to say handmade work should include flaws or not be made to the best of your ability, it should. I can tell you this also; the average joe isn't going to know what you're showing them when you proudly exhibit your latest handiwork to them, your new best pal, that flintlock rifle. After a brief exam they'll say its very nice, then ask if you forged the barrel yourself, and next ask "How long is the delay from pulling the trigger to it firing?"

The plain fact is they think you're nuts for making something that doesn't have optics and only goes bang once before you have to reload it.

dave
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 02:41:33 AM by PPatch »
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Offline Nordnecker

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2017, 03:04:04 PM »
^ Ain't that the truth.
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Offline flehto

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2017, 05:09:39 PM »
The amount of time spent on shaping a stock is dependent on the individual....some like Mike Brooks can do it pronto and guys like me not as fast. But speed isn't necessarily the criteria ...."how good does it look" is. No one wants a lumpy looking stock but spending an inordinate amount of time to eliminate even minor curves is counter productive.

I shape the stocks mainly by "eyeball"  and do use a straight edge every so often, but the final test is "how good dos it look" and when this is satisfied, I stop.

Many on this Forum are "perfectionists"  and won't tolerate any imperfections and others aren't  so fussy, but if the end product from both types "looks good" , then they've succeeded.  Below is my effort on my present build and no doubt it's not perfect, but then I didn't intend it to be.....Fred 

 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 07:03:36 PM by flehto »

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: stock shaping question
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2017, 05:56:38 PM »
The wrist is my hardest pace to get symmetrical. I use this contour gage to check things side to side to see if they are close to similar. I am a beginner need need such contraptions.