Isaac Hollis and Son Sporting Rifle

[heelerau]

Gents, this rifle if long and it does shoot patched ball !! Forsyth type rifling, wide shallow groove and very narrow lands, quite the opposite of the american long rifle.  It is .72,  and likely uses a charge somewheres between 3 and 3 1/2 drams of FFg.  I am going to proof the barrel today using 3 drams of FFg and a leather patched ball. This rifle was given to me the other day as a birthday come thank you present from a  workmate.  The rifle is just under 8 lbs,  has a single folding leaf sight, it has also had a replacement front sight, leaving an empty dove tail which I have fitted a copper piece to .


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[greybeard]

It is hard not to like those English sporting riles...
       Bob

[Brent English]

I have a very similar J.Hollis in .52.  I shoot 75 grains of 2F in it and a swaged round ball from Hornady.  Tack driver and the devil on deer.  Good rifle !

[heelerau]

Brent,  talking to a chap in Africa, tells me small charges and large heavy balls, these rifles for moggys and antelope.  We do have deer down under, but hard to find, so kangas and pigs for me at this stage. The rifle has been well used, and the sights, only  1 folding leaf, no fixed rear sight like you would normally have, then a couple of additional leaves. The bore is going to take a bit more work to get back to where I can use a linen patch, and a proper fitting ball. It will be interesting to see what it will do off the bench at 50 and 100 yards.  Would you mind emailing me a picture of your rifle, sights, and muzzle please ? cripplecreek2@bigpond.com.,  There seems not to be a lot of information about these rifles on the net. That may be because I have not asked the right questions yet !!

Cheers

Gordon

[Bob Roller]

It is hard not to like those English sporting riles...
       Bob

These have been my favorite type of rifle since 1962 when I bought a fine
Whitworth semi military match rifle. I traded a fine pistol and $150 in cash to E.M.Farris for it and used
it for 11 years.

Bob Roller

[Brent English]

Brent,  talking to a chap in Africa, tells me small charges and large heavy balls, these rifles for moggys and antelope.  We do have deer down under, but hard to find, so kangas and pigs for me at this stage. The rifle has been well used, and the sights, only  1 folding leaf, no fixed rear sight like you would normally have, then a couple of additional leaves. The bore is going to take a bit more work to get back to where I can use a linen patch, and a proper fitting ball. It will be interesting to see what it will do off the bench at 50 and 100 yards.  Would you mind emailing me a picture of your rifle, sights, and muzzle please ? cripplecreek2@bigpond.com.,  There seems not to be a lot of information about these rifles on the net. That may be because I have not asked the right questions yet !!

Cheers

Gordon

If I remember right, there is one fixed site and two folding leafs for the rear sight.  The front sight is a replacement I made and has an ivory bead.  I'll get some photos for you in the next couple of days.

[Brent English]

Hi Gordon, pictures you requested have been sent to the email you gave.  Regards, Brent

[Dphariss]

Gents, this rifle if long and it does shoot patched ball !! Forsyth type rifling, wide shallow groove and very narrow lands, quite the opposite of the american long rifle.  It is .72,  and likely uses a charge somewheres between 3 and 3 1/2 drams of FFg.  I am going to proof the barrel today using 3 drams of FFg and a leather patched ball. This rifle was given to me the other day as a birthday come thank you present from a  workmate.  The rifle is just under 8 lbs,  has a single folding leaf sight, it has also had a replacement front sight, leaving an empty dove tail which I have fitted a copper piece to .

I would debreech and look at it first then prove it per the tables in Greener's "The Gun and Its Development". If it has pitting internally that has attacked a weld it may fail with any powder charge. If it has a slow twist it may not shoot well with light charges. Also it was surely designed for a linen patch.
The narrow lands,  shallow grooves allowed easier loading in the large calibers and also allowed the use of hardened lead. Necessary for heavy game in India or Africa.

Dan

[heelerau]

Dan, thanks for the advise.  I started shooting it last week after giving it a light proof.  I did speak to someone at work re Non Destructive Testing and could take the barrel in for either X-ray or die pen testing. Probably X-ray may be the go.  The rifle bore seems to be coming up nicely. I am shooting a .678 ball with a heavy leather spit patch, as that is the only mould I have at the moment, so obviously not the correct combination. It is working all enough and putting all the balls within a palm at 25 m.  I think with a little more of this the last of the small rust patches should go. It already feels pretty smooth with a tight fitting cleaning patch on a shotgun jag.  I have found an outfit in Britain which makes ball moulds of the probable correct size, I will have to slug the bore to get a proper measurement.   I am a bit concerned about pulling the breach plug,  is the use of a heat ok? I don't mean heating to red hot , ?

cheers

Gordon

[heelerau]

Gents, banged a few ill fitting balls down range today, 50 m off the bench, 3 drams of Goex Fg, half inch felt greased felt wad and using leather from used riggers gloves as patch material, they tast awful !  Things will improve once I get a proper fitting ball and go to  a greased linen patch.  The last few shots were all in the black, once the bore got more

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You said in your first post that the bore was .72 Cal. and later that you have been shooting .978" balls?

[heelerau]

 Mate I must have written that badly, I intend to get another ball mould for this rifle when funds allow, and I get around to slugging the bore. The current ball is just what I have to hand in a bag mould and is .678. I am going to have to lighten the trigger a bit as it is  pretty heavy around 9 10 lbs pull. Or I could just get used to it !

[heelerau]

 Gentlemen sorted out a copper spacing washer for a new cone for this rifle, the original cone seemed to be about a turn and a half shorter in the thread than a the normal  Enfield cone. As it is mostly only reverse cones that we have available I though maybe a copper spacing washer would work, so  I made up one and fitted the new stainless steel cone with some gas thread tap, and it seems ok, hammer still hits the cone flush and when snapping a few caps I was able to see a piece of grass move , so hopefully there will be no ignition issues.   Taylor I meant to say I am using a .678 diam ball at the moment as that is all I have for the moment.  I think that Track has a ball mould that may suffice and will get one in due course.

Cheers

Gordon

[Daryl]

Jeff Tanner Moulds in the UK will make any size you want. I think they are around $30.00-$35.00 US. Jeff's moulds are cut to fit standard handles, Lyman, New Lee, RCBS & Saeco.


http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/moulds.html

[heelerau]

Gents got a .71 bag mould from Track the other day. Does cast a nice ball and I have tried it with a heavy denim patch. A big improvement. Bore is coming a long nicely, no patches were torn. I started at 3 1/2 drams for the first group of 3 which was low some what of the point of aim. Long story short increased each group of 3 by 1/2 drams and finished on 4 drams of Fg. group about 4 to 5 inches at the point of aim. I will try a thicker patch again and see how that goes. I still have to drift the rear sight to the right a bit. I find that you have to go a little slower with the bag mould as you get runnels when the lead cools if the mould gets to hot. I do not expect target accuracy but minute of kanga , pig or if I am really lucky deer. When I get it finally settled I will post a target.  I must say shooting .72 is a bit like hurling anvils down range !! The large charge is surprisingly pleasant on the shoulder , even shooting off the bench.
  9th September. Have cut some 12 gauge wads and greased them with lard, so should grease the bore nicely,  am using Dutchs' dry lube on a heavy denim patch with 4 1/2 drams of Fg. Will try this load out in a few days. I have set up a day bag with an old Puma as a patch knife, 

also picked up a nice powder flask with 4 1/2 dram max of flea bay down under for $45 , no other bids so you can get lucky

[heelerau]

Gents had a couple of custom cones made up, one with a platinum liner. The 12 gauge ball mould with a thick denim patch and 4 1/2 drams of Fg powder has the old girl shooting at point of aim at 50 yards off the bench. Will try the same load but with card over powder and a lard lubed felt wad then patched ball, I had shot it before with wads and even though it was a much smaller ball it seemed to shoot better. Still no information on the net re loads for this type of rifle  .  May get a chance this Thursday to visit the range and give it a try.  Not much information about what sort of pouches were carried by English hunters, so have made up something using an old set of reins for a strap and a small Puma for a patch knife. Flask is English and unmarked, picked up down under on flea bay for $45 Aust, no other bidders !! We only have teddy bears and koala bears down under !! @!*% they are really killers

[smylee grouch]

500 plus grain ball, wow, that would make one $#*! of a bear gun. Nice looking rifle.

[heelerau]

Shot a target today off the bench at 50 m. 4 1/2 drams of fg, card over powder greased thick hard felt wad, thick denim patch with Dutch's dry lube, 7 to 1 balistol to water.  First and 3rd shots low the rest a nice 9 ring group, just need to adjust the rear sight over a tad . 12oclock hold in the black P1020775 by Gordon Hazel, on Flickr

[heelerau]

Gents fitted a Christmas Sling with J swivel hooks, I am thinking that the original sling may have been attached to the rifles sling points with a rawhide thong. These J hook swivels are like rocking horse manure to find. I will try some FFg in the rifle next time I am at the range and see how that goes.


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[FDR]

Very interesting. Keep the updates coming.

Fred

[Pukka Bundook]

Looks like you're getting it well sorted, Gordon!

Good on you and keep us posted.

R.

[Robby]

Heelaru, would these be considered J swivel hooks? Would they have been on the gun originally? Beautiful gun!!!!
Robby

[Pukka Bundook]

Robby,

Not meaning to answer for Gordon, but yes, they are the ones!

[Robby]

Thank you Pukka.
Robby

[heelerau]

Cheers Pukka, they are the ones, got them from Dixie Gun Works, the only other source is Peter Dyson and Son in England. They are extremely hard to find, Well I found anyways.

Happy New Year from Down Under !!

Gordon